TP: I bet, he calls. I bet, he calls. I bet, he .. Raises!?

GrandmaStabone · #1 08-07-2005, 02:16 AM

No reads on villain.

1.) what do you do in this situation with no reads

2.) against a LAG?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (3 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (5 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

the pot is giving me 8-1 on the river, it's big - but not THAT big... I hate it when villains pull the call call raise line, it signals that they improved and w TP I cannot beat any hand that has improved. Many times it's read based, or dictated by a really big pot; Here however it really was neither, so what would be standard?

shadow29 · #2 08-07-2005, 02:29 AM

uh i almost never bet/fold riv w/ tp.

i hate this line by opp too. i bet he flopped 2 pr. what a fucker.

but to answer your question, barring a specific read, calling is standard here.

AlmightyJay · #3 08-07-2005, 03:22 AM

I call. I figure he's got 55, JJ, or 99 most of the time, but he might be doing a random donk bluff enough to make this a call.

fluxrad · #4 08-07-2005, 03:27 AM

grunching.

1. w/ no reads, I check/call the river. You're not going to get called by much that you beat here. In the above case, the river raise indicates that you're beat. I think I fold to that raise.

2. Against a LAG, I still check/call the river, but I'd probably call the raise above.

I'm guessing villain showed KTo

numeri · #5 08-07-2005, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
w/ no reads, I check/call the river. You're not going to get called by much that you beat here.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. You'll often get calls with some random pair.

[ QUOTE ]
In the above case, the river raise indicates that you're beat. I think I fold to that raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, though I rarely do. If it's a leak, it's not a horrible one. (At least, that's how I justify it! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img])

#6 08-07-2005, 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
w/ no reads, I check/call the river. You're not going to get called by much that you beat here.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. You'll often get calls with some random pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll second that.

I've seen players call the river with K high or worse, and it's fairly common to see ariver call with a smaller pair. I think you are giving up bets her if you check the river.

Art

#7 08-08-2005, 11:06 AM

Betting this river for value because many weak, passive players will call you and then not respecting a raise from such a player is kinda strange. I think when a loose, passive player raises you, he doesn't care much about your TPNK and I think you'll win the pot less than once in 9 times (you're getting 1 to 8 for your call on the river).
Moreover you shouldn't bet the river if this might cause you to make an unprofitable call when he raises.

And from my own experience (though I've never played at Party Poker): you are right by saying most ppl will call here with many weak pairs, but nearly all of them will bet with them alike when you check to them. They think you have a weak pair and are scared by the board or they even think they beat you with their Q3, they could suppose you played a draw very aggrissively, most players are not willing to give you a free showdown when they hold a pair of jacks or better.
And they might bluff with some hands they wouldn't have called with (when they have nothing).
From my own experience I'd always c/c here because when my opponent holds a hand he'd call with he'll bet with it about 80% of the time (most of the time you have him beaten here).

Btw.: Most posters (including me) said we should c/c the river against a LAG, does anyone like c/r against a real LAG here?

bottomset · #8 08-07-2005, 03:29 AM

its an easy call against a LAG

against a normal .5/1 donk, I'm thinking folding is better, your kicker doesn't play so you chop with a random wait till the river raise A2, and you don't beat much else .. from my experience its very rare for a river raise like this to ever not beat TPNK ...

dozer · #9 08-07-2005, 06:38 AM

with no reads you should call this.

Against a LAG, you should check the river to induce a bluff.

_bustedflush_ · #10 08-07-2005, 07:28 AM

My standard has been to call this, but this happened several times last night and TP went down in flames each time. This week I filter PT for "went to showdown" and see how this usually plays out. I don't have a big sample size, but my gut is that it is a rare micro player that pulls this as a bluff.