Turned flush - 1/2 six-max

ClaytonN · #1 06-23-2005, 05:07 PM

Unknown villain

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (3 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP 3-bets, SB folds, Hero calls.

River: (10 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, planning on calling any river bet

deception5 · #2 06-23-2005, 05:12 PM

Without a premonition I cap the turn.

River check/call is fine.

Edit: I think an interesting question is whether to raise preflop or not. I'm pretty sure I would.

gharp · #3 06-23-2005, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think an interesting question is whether to raise preflop or not. I'm pretty sure I would.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't really get this. My thinking with lowish suited connectors is to see a cheap flop in a (hopefully) multi-way pot. I'm pretty sure you don't have any kind of equity edge against two random hands with your ten high.

As for the hand I'd be inclined to cap the turn too. River looks fine.

aK13 · #4 06-23-2005, 05:40 PM

I cap the turn, and check/call the river.

LowDown22 · #5 06-23-2005, 05:15 PM

I'm considering betting out on this river. I don't think he's got the Ace as he would likely have raised the flop, unless very passive. So he's got K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]X [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or your good.

I don't like capping the turn because then I feel I have to bet this river and could get raised again.

zephed · #6 06-24-2005, 09:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm considering betting out on this river. I don't think he's got the Ace as he would likely have raised the flop, unless very passive. So he's got K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]X [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or your good.

I don't like capping the turn because then I feel I have to bet this river and could get raised again.

[/ QUOTE ]
You don't know the 4th spade is coming...

I think you have to cap this turn. You are ahead here a lot (I don't know how to quantify it), and your opponent may have lots of outs against you (2pr/set->boat, 1-card flush draw).

LowDown22 · #7 06-24-2005, 11:33 AM

I don't need to know that the 4th spade is coming. I think his hand is pretty well defined here. Either he has KT or he has a flush IMO. The only hand that can conceivably draw out against us is the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] paired with a non-spade Ten.

Anyway, the reason I said to call the turn 3bet and bet out the river was sort of a compromise. I'm not sure I have the best hand, but there's only a few hands that can actually beat us here. If I cap the turn and bet the river I will get raised if I am behind. However, since I think we are good here slightly more than 50% I want to make sure the river doesn't check through. Perhaps I'm missing some value by not capping the turn, but I am also saving a bet when I am behind - there is no chance I cap this turn and check-call the river.

zephed · #8 06-25-2005, 11:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't need to know that the 4th spade is coming. I think his hand is pretty well defined here. Either he has KT or he has a flush IMO. The only hand that can conceivably draw out against us is the K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] paired with a non-spade Ten.

Anyway, the reason I said to call the turn 3bet and bet out the river was sort of a compromise. I'm not sure I have the best hand, but there's only a few hands that can actually beat us here. If I cap the turn and bet the river I will get raised if I am behind. However, since I think we are good here slightly more than 50% I want to make sure the river doesn't check through. Perhaps I'm missing some value by not capping the turn, but I am also saving a bet when I am behind - there is no chance I cap this turn and check-call the river.

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You are ahead here WAAAAAAAAAAAY more than 50%, and it's not even close. You are definitely missing value.

There are a lot of good second best hands that we could be up against. Top pair, top pair with good kicker w/gutshot perhaps, 2 pair, a set, a straight.

You will see tptk here sometimes. A set might 3-bet.
Top pair with a gutshot sometimes will 3-bet.
2 pair will often 3-bet. And last but not least, I think a straight is 3-betting here everytime.

Kumubou · #9 06-23-2005, 05:21 PM

I jam that turn and throw something at the wall when the river comes (and check/call the river -- there may be some worse hands that will call you, but most of those will bet out. Any hands that pwn you now will reraise and cost you more bets, so betting out does not gain you much.)

I could see villan having a weak ace here though -- Ace-whatever s00ted is a calling down hand to your average PP goon when they spike their ace, but even they can cap the nuts.

-K

LowDown22 · #10 06-23-2005, 05:25 PM

Since everyone (except me) is saying to cap the turn, what hand(s) do you put MP on that you were beating on the turn and no longer beat on the river?