People who died, died.

[RJT]

I am curious (and I am not drawing any conclusions with my question). But, I am interested in knowing whether any atheists here have yet experienced the loss of a loved one (believers can respond too, it is just that I think your experience might not be much different than my own). If so at what age where you or what time(s)in your life?

Did this have any influence on your atheism? Either led toward it, was already pretty much there and convinced you or made no difference. Did it affect your thoughts on your atheism one way or the other.

I ask this question out of personal experience. The losses I that have unfortunately experienced did not necessarily affect my faith (if anything it might have strengthen it, but that is not my point). But, I have more in mind on how they affected me as a person. I think one definitely because wiser in the “process” (perhaps it is just more experienced and wiser is not the right word).

When my father died when I was 29, one of my good friends told me (he had lost his dad when we were in 7th grade) “Welcome to the club”. I knew right away what he meant. And now when I attend wakes I have an empathy to the families. Prior to this I only felt sympathy.

Obviously, I as a believer deal with my grief differently than those of the atheist. I am able to find some solace in the hope that my loved ones are with God. I am not so much asking about atheists grieving process, although feel free to post such thoughts if so desire. Rather, I am more curious to hear some comments if/how death has affected the poster particularly regarding the God issue, but in any manner too is fine.

p.s. To those who don’t know, my subject title alluded to the Jim Carroll song “People Who Died” - btw, not relevant to my post.

[benjdm]

I remember my grandparents dying when I was in my teens. My grandfather was especially tough, as he was in pain toward the end. I remember going to his house to visit him and he was asking my uncle to euthanize him, but not in direct language. I understood what he was asking but my uncle either didn't or was pretending not to. It didn't affect my atheism at all that I can remember.

Hi RJT,

Every time someone close, or even known to me, it is the same. It strengthen my atheism. It has been so since I have been an atheist which was a slow/gradual process that became real to me in my late 20's, probably. I definitely was brought up and educated religiously.

BTW, I make a point of watching Jim Lehrer's hour (or a repeat of it since I am not in the US) most days, and I always make sure to stop what I am doing and concentrate on the pictures, when they are shown, at the end of the program, of those servicement who died in Iraq. I feel the same about those that I do about closer ones. It has the same effect to me, it strengthen my atheism, especially when I see the age of some of those. They truly are mere kids who imo had no clues. I remember when I was that age: I was doing commissioned officer training.

[theweatherman]

I mean no offense to your late father or yourself, but when you say you are consouled by knowing he is with God in heaven, how do you know this. There is the very distinct possibility that most people are going to hell, a place way worse than earth. It is difficult to know where anyone stands on their beilief in God and so it is impossible to say if a loved one is in eternal bliss or eternal damnation.

[RJT]

theWM,

[ QUOTE ]
I mean no offense to your late father or yourself, but when you say you are consouled by knowing he is with God in heaven, how do you know this. There is the very distinct possibility that most people are going to hell, a place way worse than earth. It is difficult to know where anyone stands on their beilief in God and so it is impossible to say if a loved one is in eternal bliss or eternal damnation.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense taken (other than you misquoted me).

I said this:

[ QUOTE ]
I am able to find some solace in the hope that my loved ones are with God.

[/ QUOTE ]

not what you restated I said.

In fact there is a slight chance that he might not be in heaven. But, I am fairly sure he is there, if there is one. He was a good guy – with good ethics. Like the rest of us sinners he was a bit naughty, though.

David probably would have liked him. Fun to be around, especially in Vegas. He always made sure everyone was having a good time. He was a prime mover to that end, too. I was really too young to accompany him to Vegas in his heyday. And the few times I did I was either a child or still wet behind the ears. He was a, not high-roller per se especially by today's standards (but he probably "paid for" a few minor renovations there), but was “compted” fairly well. Caesar’s was his turf in the days when Caesar’s was the Bellaggio of Vegas. Craps was his game. (Although, he was a very good pinochle player – so he knew his stuff. I am sure he would have made a very good hold ‘em, player.) And he liked the women in the Sin City (and they liked him).

RJT

[Trantor]

[ QUOTE ]
I am curious (and I am not drawing any conclusions with my question). But, I am interested in knowing whether any atheists here have yet experienced the loss of a loved one (believers can respond too, it is just that I think your experience might not be much different than my own). If so at what age where you or what time(s)in your life?

Did this have any influence on your atheism? Either led toward it, was already pretty much there and convinced you or made no difference. Did it affect your thoughts on your atheism one way or the other.

I ask this question out of personal experience. The losses I that have unfortunately experienced did not necessarily affect my faith (if anything it might have strengthen it, but that is not my point). But, I have more in mind on how they affected me as a person. I think one definitely because wiser in the “process” (perhaps it is just more experienced and wiser is not the right word).

When my father died when I was 29, one of my good friends told me (he had lost his dad when we were in 7th grade) “Welcome to the club”. I knew right away what he meant. And now when I attend wakes I have an empathy to the families. Prior to this I only felt sympathy.

Obviously, I as a believer deal with my grief differently than those of the atheist. I am able to find some solace in the hope that my loved ones are with God. I am not so much asking about atheists grieving process, although feel free to post such thoughts if so desire. Rather, I am more curious to hear some comments if/how death has affected the poster particularly regarding the God issue, but in any manner too is fine.

p.s. To those who don’t know, my subject title alluded to the Jim Carroll song “People Who Died” - btw, not relevant to my post.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I have been most concious of at funerals (Christian) is that death does not seem quite so important ( and convesely life)to the believers. The deceased live on invariably in a better place, in better circumstances with God. I "know" however that there is no after life. The shot at life the person had is finished for the deceased and that death has infinitley more import to the non-believer...it really is over for good and forever.

It doesn't make my atheism stronger or weaker but my experience is I guess differenet and if anything sadder for a given death.

[Mroberts3]

the death of my grandparents strengthened my athiesm for sure. I think it was the first time that I really became in touch with my own mortality and my view of reality. I realized that we will all die, but its not so bad because we will live on in word and deed. Having done some good in the world, and having people honor my life is better than a million heavens.

[Cooker]

I guess the biggest loss I have had was when my Grandparents died. I don't think that had much influence on me, since I wouldn't leave Christianity for some time after. Two somewhat more traumatic events where when I was young, my best friend's younger brother was killed in a boating accident and a neighbor of mine that had cancer very young died when it came back when she was roughly 12 (I was a little younger than her).

I think that one of the things that pushed me away from religion and God was having my own kids and imagining all the lost promise of children. I can't imagine a God that constantly watches over us would let children starve, suffer, be molested, and be murdered. Even to a lesser extent I am unsettled when I see a child in an unfortunate situation (uncaring or incompetent parents for instance) in which they will bbe very fortunate to end up anything but a crimial. A large portion of our fate (probably all of it) is simply random chance and that fits better with no God than a Christian God. I don't buy the fact that we are all born cursed with original sin any more than I feel as though I should take some sort of responsibility for slaves my ancestors might have owned (I am a mix of fairly poor white southerner and 1/8 native american, so I think it is unlikely my ancestor owned slaves though).

I still think a completely hands off God is a possibility, but I don't think there is likely to be anything like the Christian God.

I suppose it is comforting to feel like there is something after death, and that these souls have found a better place. I imagine death to be very similar to the experience you have before you are born. You simply don't exist, and you won't care. I wouldn't mind having my head frozen either if I can ever afford that. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[addickt]

My grandfather shot himself with me in the house on my 8th birthday...

My Girlfriend in the 9th grade was murdered by her father who then comitted suicide because he was going to prison for money laundering and lost his mind

5 Years later, me and 2 friends were playing with guns( real bright I know) and my friend had his head almost comletely blown off by a 12 gauge that shot him in the neck and lower face...

I had to run next door and tell his dad, and watch him die as his father tried to save his life.

My best friend died in a Motor Cycle Accident when I was 21

and My New best friend Od'd on Cocaine 1 day after I took him to rehab and he left. ( last year)

Im not sure that any of those events shaped my beliefs, because as long as I can remember back I never believed.

But for only being 31, ive seen a lot of messed up stuff in my life and maybe subconsciously it has affected me a lot more than I actually realize.

I guess its more or less impossible to know how your subconscious is affecting your thought processes..

I think that contrary to what some may think, losing someone at an early age may well guide them to believe more in god as they search for answers and use it as a coping mechanism.

Not sure, but I can tell you 1 thing for sure... if someone could flip a switch or brainwash me into believing in God, I would gladly sign up for that.