PokerRoom 10+1. Smart Play or Donkey Play

[DONTUSETHIS]

Just wondering what you guys think about this. Do you think this was smart or way too aggressive.

Pokerroom 10+1. Here are the three relavent stacks in this hand.

Button 10,500.
SB (Hero) 5,800
BB 815.

200/400 Blinds with no ante.

I am in small blind with J8s.

Button (10,500) limps, Hero in Sb (5,6000) limps, BB raises all in for 815. Button thinks for a few seconds and calls. I raise all in for 5,600 out of small blind.

Fist off it was most likely a mistake to limp after the button limps with such a marginal hand with the small blind being so short. After I had already done that, The pot now contained 2430 and it was 400 for me to call. I know that now I cannot throw this hand away, but my thinking was that given the button's actions he most likely did not have a big hand and by raising I could isolate the BB. What do you guys think of this.

Why couldnt he have a big hand? I see people limp with monsters on the button all the time. I dont like your play at all.

I think an EV discussion has to include more than the dynamics of the hand. Namely, the differences in payout between 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Also, how good are these two players? Is the short stack weak, or is he dangerous? What are the chances of winning the tourney heads up with maybe a big chip disadvantage, to being short stack, fighting the same situation with less chips?

For me this is a call and see the flop. J8s is not an iso hand, not when losing means being short stack or out (if button calls, which i dont think he is).

[DONTUSETHIS]

I think some of you are looking at this in a wrong sense. The reason that I am isolating here with J8s has nothing to do with the fact that i have J8. Without doing the exact calculations, I think it greatly increases my chances to win the pot against one random hand instead of two random hands. I thought that the only way the button would call me is if he was trapping with a big hand. You are committed to this pot after the BB all-in raise. Why not greatly improve your odds of winning this pot by forcing the button out.

Yeah, I can understand that reasoning, but there is no side pot. Call and check it down unless the flop comes JJJ or something. I know you are thinking "play the situation not the hand" but your hand matters because you'll have to show it if the other guy folds and J-8 will almost always be worse than whatever BB has.

-Gross

[DONTUSETHIS]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I can understand that reasoning, but there is no side pot. Call and check it down unless the flop comes JJJ or something. I know you are thinking "play the situation not the hand" but your hand matters because you'll have to show it if the other guy folds and J-8 will almost always be worse than whatever BB has.

-Gross

[/ QUOTE ]

The BB does not have to have a big hand to move his last 415 in the pot. I would guess he would do this with just about any two cards given the size of the blinds and the size of his remaining stack and the pot size now. What about this makes you think the BB has have a big hand and for that matter a hand that you would be a 6 - 1 dog to.

because you may not be able to force the button out and in that case alone, J8s sucks. your going to need to hit the flop hard to win the main pot and if button calls, oh boy your going to need a miracle, because you have now staked your tournament life on the button folding.

[jstoc]

I think perhaps more information would be helpful. I was under the impression that this was in the middle to late stages of an MTT, is this right?

very bad play

[Matador225]

If the button is at all a thinking player he is going to call with a lot of marginal hands. Your completion in the SB is a strong indication that you don't have a monster. There is also a chance that he limped a big hand on the button, but that is pretty unlikely. If you think the button may not pick up on the fact that your SB completion indicates a marginal hand this play might be +EV. Otherwise I prefer calling.