Anyone watch "30 days" of FX?

[kurto]

Its the show by the guy who did SuperSize Me where they try different challenges for 30 days.

In this first episode, he and his girlfriend try to live on minimum wage for 30 days. Its EYE opening. And it really shows how wrong it is that the minimum wage hasn't been raised since '98.

The most eye opening was healthcare. His girlfriend had to go to the doctor with a yeast infection and he for a bad arm. The bill was over $1000... including $40 for an ace bandage (that's criminal.) They realized that with both of them working, it was going to take them 3 months just to pay their hospital bills.

As a person whose job has always provided him with health insurance and has always being relatively comfortable... it was pretty eye opening.

[JackWhite]

I watched it, but for some reason I do not like that guy. I am not sure if this is accurate, but somebody told me he used to make home videos in which he'd pay homeless people to do degrading things. If that is true, he is slime. I hope it isn't.

Anyway, as far as this show. I thought it was well done and fairly entertaining. I think it would be a good idea to index the minimum wage to cost of living. Giving the working poor a little more purchasing power would probably give a boost to the economy, as well as improving their standard of living a little.

[JackWhite]

Kurto, I just did a google search and found this:

http://www.theagitator.com/archives/012211.php

Apparently it is true. This guy (Spurlock) would pay homeless people $100 to eat dog s***, then make money off the videos.

I am having a difficult time believing he cares about poor people when he would cruelly exploit them in the past to make a few bucks.

[kurto]

Yeah... that sounds pretty sh*tty. (for the record, I don't mind the MTV show. That is, I think its stupid, but if teens want to embarrass and humiliate themselves for money or to be on TV... that's there choice. If you've ever watched Spring Break or Real World, you'll see that college students don't need a lot of encouragement to do stupid things. lol)

I've only seen Supersize Me and the first episode of this show. I am wary knowing what you found, but I don't necessarily think he has to be insincere. There is a possibility that he was a shallow dude who could have matured and learned from the experience. I've certainly met people who were real jerks when they were younger and became decent people over the years. (My brother went went from being a slutty do-nothing drug addict in his 20s and now he's a born again, happily married and runs his own business. So people can turn a new leaf.)

Regarding the minimum wage... I agree with you. It should be linked to the cost of living. I think it also demonstrates how hard it is to rise above poverty. When while just trying to survive, you're constantly spiralling into debt, it would be very difficult to just get your head above water much less 'make it.'

Whether he was sincere or not, seeing the show really made me appreciate what I've got.

[MMMMMM]

If the minimum wage were to be raised significantly, there will be fewer jobs. So it's a trade-off.

Very few people even try to make a living on minimum wage, and it's NOT a living wage. Minimum wage jobs are usually held by students, recent graduates, part-timers, etc. For them, it can be a useful small income, and the job perhaps a stepping stone to better things.

It's funny you should base your take on what it's like to try to rise from being broke, on some show, which profiles a few people trying to do that on minimum wage. Well if you've never done it yourself I guess that's all you have to go on. The first question to ask is, why are these people trying to get out of being broke by working for minimum wage?

Having had the experiences of both being broke and working for minimum wage, I assure you I did not try to get ahead by my minimum wage job. I QUIT that POS job (bussing tables in a Pizza Hut at age 19) and taught myself a trade (cleaning windows), which wasn't that hard to do. And it only cost a couple hundred in start-up costs (like back in 1981). I then went out and got some customers, built up a clientele, and coasted merrily along with a profitable window-cleaning route, working my own part-time hours, until some years later when I decided to go to school for computer programming. Cleaning windows gave me plenty of free time to read and do other things--and I did love my free time--plus I could make ends meet without knocking myself out too much, but...eventually it was time to move on.

There are many ways out of being broke: working for yourself, even if it's mowing lawns or cleaning houses, is much better than a minimum wage job. Or you can take the temporary route of working two jobs or lots of overtime to save some money. Or you can be a good and competent employee at whatever your job is, and get yourself promoted, even in a McDonald's. Or you can go out and find a better-paying job. And what the hell, today you can even do it playing poker if you are smart and diligent.

It does suck to be broke and for a short while it can be a hard bitch to climb out of it, BUT...it isn't a life sentence or anything. I've been there a few times in my life. I doubt if raising the minimum wage would have a net effect of really helping people much in this regard. The minimum wage will never be raised to a true living wage so what's the point? Save it for students and part-timers, etc. They can use it. And businesses can use the cheap labor.

Nobody in America has to be stuck at minimum wage all their lives. And if businesses have to pay too much more to get help (especially mom & pop type businesses) they'll just decide to work some overtime themselves that summer instead of hiring another student.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
If the minimum wage were to be raised significantly, there will be fewer jobs. So it's a trade-off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nearly every salaried job out there has yearly adjustments to the cost of living. I've been working for 15 years and have never NOT held a job that didn't include a yearly wage adjustment.

Meanwhile, the minimum wage has not risen in 7 years.

Furthermore... some studies have shown that your statement is wrong:

[ QUOTE ]
This unified view was challenged by empirical research done by David Card and Alan Krueger. In their 1997 book Myth and Measurement: The New Economics of the Minimum Wage (ISBN 0-691-04823-1), they argued the negative employment effects of minimum-wage laws to be minimal if not non-existent (at least for the United States). For example, they look at the 1992 increase in New Jersey's minimum wage, the 1988 rise in California's minimum wage, and the 1990-91 increases in the federal minimum wage. In each case, Card and Kreuger present evidence ostensibly showing that increases in the minimum wage led to increases in pay, but no loss in jobs. That is, it appears that the demand for low-wage workers is inelastic. [ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Very few people even try to make a living on minimum wage, and it's NOT a living wage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you show how many people try to make a living at minimum wage. I suspect you're guessing. In the program, the host was working with other adults who were all working minimum wage jobs to support their families. Furthermore, at least according to this program, the Minimum wage was established precisely to be a minimum living wage.

And again... I think you're guessing. A quick search found this:
[ QUOTE ]
The number of jobs where wages were below what a worker would need to support a family of four above the poverty line also grew between 1979 and 1999. In 1999, 26.8% of the workforce earned poverty-level wages, an increase from 23.7% in 1979.


[/ QUOTE ]

On top of that, I have several state sites that SPECIFICALLY refer to it as "living wage."

[ QUOTE ]
It's funny you should base your take on what it's like to try to rise from being broke, on some show, which profiles a few people trying to do that on minimum wage. Well if you've never done it yourself I guess that's all you have to go on. The first question to ask is, why are these people trying to get out of being broke by working for minimum wage?

[/ QUOTE ]

Many people have no choice. I find it amusing when people think that there are always better jobs available to anyone who wants them if they only look for them.

Your situation is not necessarily the same as others. You took time off and spent a few hundred dollars to learn a trade. Some people don't have the luxury of taking time off, they don't have a few hundred dollars to spend because they're already in debt, etc. They may live in areas where they don't have the opportunities you do. etc.

Everyone doesn't have the skills/brains/opportunities/options/education that you do. Some people have to take the crappy job that is available to them. The idea is that these people working these jobs shouldn't be below poverty.

[ QUOTE ]
Or you can take the temporary route of working two jobs or lots of overtime to save some money

[/ QUOTE ] Why do assume people working near minimum wage aren't already doing this.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
If the minimum wage were to be raised significantly, there will be fewer jobs. So it's a trade-off.
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Nearly every salaried job out there has yearly adjustments to the cost of living. I've been working for 15 years and have never NOT held a job that didn't include a yearly wage adjustment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker dealer does not have an adjustment.

[ QUOTE ]
Meanwhile, the minimum wage has not risen in 7 years.

Furthermore... some studies have shown that your statement is wrong:

[/ QUOTE ]

My statement included the word significantly. I'm not talking about minor increases.

[ QUOTE ]
Many people have no choice. I find it amusing when people think that there are always better jobs available to anyone who wants them if they only look for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh. How ironic coming from you who apparently have never worked a minimum wage job or been broke in your life.

When I lived in Maine, in the Autumn of '79, I couldn't find a job AT ALL. As I said, Washingtom County had about the highest unemployment in the entire country (and maybe still does). So I dug clams in the icy mud flats and sold them to the local clam company. I was lucky to make around $25 a day. And some days in early winter it was impossible to even do that due to the weather. And your hands got numb even with the insulated waterproof gloves.

Finally I found the job on construction: a bust-ass, minimum wage laborer's job. I hitchhiked and walked ten miles each way to work IN THE COLDEST FRIGGIN' WINTER YOU EVER SAW. And that's how I bought groceries and did laundry too: carrying a great sack on my back for ten miles each way. And often I had to walk much or most of the way--sometimes even the full 20 miles in a day--as well as loading and carting around bricks and mortar for the masons all day.

[ QUOTE ]
Your situation is not necessarily the same as others. You took time off and spent a few hundred dollars to learn a trade. Some people don't have the luxury of taking time off, they don't have a few hundred dollars to spend because they're already in debt, etc. They may live in areas where they don't have the opportunities you do. etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I learned half the art of window-cleaning on my own time while I was working bussing tables. It only took around $200 to start. Hell it might have even been less at first although I added equipment as my clientele grew.

Young people today could do similarly. There are lots of windows that need to be cleaned, lots of lawns that need to be mowed, lots of leaves that need to be raked, lots of painting that needs to be done.

Before the Pizaa Hut and window-cleaning, when I lived in rural Maine, the unemployment rate was around the highest in the entire country (Washington County). I had a minimum wage job and come summer (seasonal work in a fish factory) I was able to work 84 hrs./week to save money on it. Which is exactly what I did. Which I did WHILE WALKING AND HITCHHIKING TEN MILES EACH WAY BACK AND FORTH TO WORK EVERY DAY. This was after a winter/spring of being close to broke and barely getting by on another minimum wage job at age 18.

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone doesn't have the skills/brains/opportunities/options/education that you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on, how much education/skills/education did it take learn to squeegee storefront windows? I taught myself a bit, practicing cheap for a few stores while working bussing tables, then saw I could get more stores as clients so I quit my job. No rocket science or silver spoon there. You're barking up the wrong tree

[ QUOTE ]
Some people have to take the crappy job that is available to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is exactly what I did when I was 18 and part of 19. I worked as a mason-tender on contruction, a roofer's helper, a fish-fileting-machine cleaner, and later in a Pizza Hut in another part of the country bussing tables (and then I quit to do the window-cleaning route thing). The point is, nobody has to stay stuck in minimum wage FOREVER.

[ QUOTE ]
The idea is that these people working these jobs shouldn't be below poverty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's the "idea". The truth is that unless they take some initiative to get out of poverty it isn't going to happen. And you can't just legislate away poverty by doing things like raising the minimum wage.


[ QUOTE ]
Or you can take the temporary route of working two jobs or lots of overtime to save some money
----------------------------------------------------------
Why do assume people working near minimum wage aren't already doing this.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you work 80 hours a week for a while and live frugally you will save money even at minimum wage. Something young people are quite capable of doing (I did it so I know).

Kurto, you seem to believe the standard liberal class-warfare dogma and myth. I guess that's what they teach in college. But it just isn't true. Yes it greatly sucks being broke or earning very little but diligence and initiative will take care of that in time. Nothing different than when our ancestors came to this country and had to bust their butts for a while and live frugally. The only thing different is that it's a lot easier to get out of poverty now than it was say a couple hundred years ago.

Why am I telling you all this? Because I think you're bright enough to consider rethinking some of your preconceptions (about a place you've never been), and I guess because it does me some good personally to review all this. It makes me appreciate poker a lot more and makes me ashamed that I spend money regularly on fairly expensive food. Time to reevaluate: I'm not going to spend another nickel on anything I don't have to for quite a while. I could use the practice and discipline again.

The cure for poverty is just this: I'll link it in my following post. It's truer than you might guess and is beautiful as well. And I'm ashamed to think that today I have slipped so far today from the timeless and priceless principles I used to practice and hold dear when I was broke and truly struggling.

[slamdunkpro]

This guy is a Michael Moore wannabe. He’s a limousine liberal who wants all kinds of social programs at taxpayer expense. He used to exploit homeless people then sell the videos.

Second – raising the minimum wage leads to a reduction in small business and more unemployment.

[kurto]

So,.... you saw the show or not?

[ QUOTE ]
This guy is a Michael Moore wannabe. He’s a limousine liberal who wants all kinds of social programs at taxpayer expense.

[/ QUOTE ]

He suggested no social programs in the show (nor in Supersize Me) other then suggesting that that after 7 years, perhaps the Min Wage should be adjusted as the min wage, after adjusting for inflation, has actually gone down.

[ QUOTE ]
Second – raising the minimum wage leads to a reduction in small business and more unemployment.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've just read two studies: one academic and one done by the city of Chicago that have shown this to be untrue. The Chicago one was done specifically to be sure that they weren't hurting their economy by increasing their minimum wage. They concluded this is a myth.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
So,.... you saw the show or not?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I saw it.

[ QUOTE ]
He suggested no social programs in the show

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said he did on the show I'm basing that on several interviews he's given.

[ QUOTE ]
I've just read two studies: one academic and one done by the city of Chicago

[/ QUOTE ]

Well here in the real world - I'm here to tell you that as a small business owner MMMMMM's got it right if the minimum wage is raised I'll just have to put a few hours of overtime in and not hire a summer student. I know a lot of real world business people who think the same.

Dan Akroyd said it best in ghost busters " You've never worked in the private sector - they expect resuts!"

(The You is for all those Ivory tower academics who do these studies - mostly with a taxpayer grant)