A QTo Hand

[nepenthe]

No reads except the table was pretty loose.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: nepenthe is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, nepenthe calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (5.33 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP3 folds, nepenthe calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

I called with the intention of raising the turn no matter what fell.

Turn: (4.66 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">nepenthe raises</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

I put UTG+1 on a sole King, and MP1 on a sole queen, a draw, or some other lower pair.

River: (10.66 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, nepenthe checks.

Somehow I feel that my bet won't be for value.

Final Pot: 10.66 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 10.66 BB, between nepenthe, UTG+1 and MP1.</font>

[jrobb83]

I would fold pre flop, this hand is a pretty big piece of garbage.

Nice flop, I'd probably raise the flop hoping for some good flop action, your hand is very strong, so nothing wrong with building a big pot on the flop.

I think you have to bet this river. I think you'll be called by just a Q often enough to make money. People make some amazing river calls at party, take advantage.

[bsk1999]

1) fold pre flop, QTo is a losing hand in the long run
2) raise the flop. Who's betting here? I would put MP on KQo, or QJo, they will call to the river. BB is probably on a draw (J9), maybe AT or KT
3) K hurts, now you are behind AJ, J9, KQ, KT. If you had bet the flop you could have knocked out the BB, and had a better read on MP. I call here a bet, check it through
4) Following my logic above, if it's checked through on the turn, and checked to me on the river, I bet, if I'm bet into I call. With your play, I check it throuh as now any King beats me.

[nepenthe]

[ QUOTE ]
1) fold pre flop, QTo is a losing hand in the long run
2) raise the flop. Who's betting here? I would put MP on KQo, or QJo, they will call to the river. BB is probably on a draw (J9), maybe AT or KT
3) K hurts, now you are behind AJ, J9, KQ, KT. If you had bet the flop you could have knocked out the BB, and had a better read on MP. I call here a bet, check it through
4) Following my logic above, if it's checked through on the turn, and checked to me on the river, I bet, if I'm bet into I call. With your play, I check it throuh as now any King beats me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play QTo here for reasons stated above...
I don't put him on KQ on the flop. QJ seems more reasonable.

You would recommend checking the turn through because, what, a J9 and AJ and KQ and KT beat me? I don't give anyone more credit except a single top pair here. Ever. Especially in an unraised pot. Unless I'm 3-bet. I bet if checked to me and I raise if bet into me. No question, no doubt.

I don't know where you're used to playing but I can tell you that Party 3/6 is a different animal. Even if it were not so, it is sheer madness to recommend that I check this turn through.

[cnfuzzd]

Flop play.

Is this one of those situations where betting/raising wont protect your hand? Obviously, the one hand that you wouldnt really get out if KJ, but not knowing that, why wouldnt you do something to win this pot? This board is somewhat coordinated, and someone is bound to have some sort of backdoor draw, and is probably going to call with it no matter what. So why not start charging them now?

peace

john nickle

[nepenthe]

Regarding my flop play...I just called here due to my position relative to the original flop bettor. Pot isn't big, I have top two pair, and I wanted to give those drawing thin a chance to make a loose call - what they do best. On the turn, I expected the flop bettor to bet into me again and then I could raise, probably knocking out everyone else or making them call two cold either of which is fine.

As it turned out, the turn card wasn't a terribly safe one (but still nonetheless OK), and someone ELSE bet out. At that point, my raise is really more for value than to protect my hand. No single straight draws are folding, no K is folding, and probably no middle or bottom pair is folding.

It would've sucked if someone beat me on the river with a runner-runner straight that they would have folded on the flop for two small bets, but I was willing to take that rather small risk to win a bigger pot. Instead, I ended up saving a SB by calling flop+raising turn+checking river, as opposed to raising flop+betting turn and river.

[bisonbison]

hooboy.

fold preflop. raise the flop. bet the turn. bet the river.

[nepenthe]

bisonbison,

While your suggestion is certainly the standard play and I understand it well, that's not what I'm interested in. I feel on a pretty loose Party 3/6 table such as the one I was in, I can play QTo and outplay them (granted, on pokertracker QTo is so far a 0.03 BB loser after 111 hands). On the flop I'm clearly ahead with top two, so I'm interested in getting some overcallers. On the turn, I am not afraid of a QK or AJ as I expect these hands to be raised. I do believe that there is at least a sole King, however, and I'm in a good position to raise and trap the field for two bets, forcing any straight draws (which I think likely) to call two cold.

If 3-bet on the turn, I would feel I'm in trouble and decide what to do on the river depending on the action.

River card is bad. Any king beats me. I seriously considered betting here, but being that I raised the turn and any singleton kings are clearly afraid of a better king or a better two pair or a set, betting for value did not seem right.

If I had raised the flop and bet the turn, I would be compelled to bet the river. By showing weakness on the flop, I was able to read the singleton K with more certainty.

As it turned out, both of my remaining opponents had KJo and they split.

[bisonbison]

Nep, I missed that the river paired the board, so I agree with the river check, but when you get a broadway flop at a loose table with a small pot and you get such a solid opportunity to raise the flop, I think you should. A lot of people will make mistakes by calling with gutshots or worse paired hands.

[mikeyvegas]

I do not hate this call pf if the table is loose.