hideousness on every street?

YoureToast · #1 09-21-2005, 09:03 PM

No real reads here. Uncomfortable on all streets.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.66 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.83 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (9.83 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.83 BB

Yerma · #2 09-21-2005, 11:35 PM

That really does look uncomfortable. To overcall the river though, you have to figure BB for QQ or JJ and also for UTG+1 to have something you beat. I think you have a solid fold on the river.

flawless_victory · #3 09-22-2005, 02:02 AM

PF/flop/turn perfect.
river v clear fold... why would you pay off here? how ridiculous is that?

bicyclekick · #4 09-22-2005, 02:05 AM

what I want to know is how you have no real reads at a full table like that. Just seems unreasonable considering the tools available today.

YoureToast · #5 09-22-2005, 08:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
what I want to know is how you have no real reads at a full table like that. Just seems unreasonable considering the tools available today.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I should have said is that these players had standard type stats (23/8/1.3), but nothing that would have affected my decision (I don't think). Yes, I use the best tools out there (although I'm not sure I'm using them optimally (is anyone sure?)).

mike l. · #6 09-22-2005, 02:17 AM

what sorta overcall on the river is that?? woah man!

otherwise it's fine. you could raise the turn.

rudedog78 · #7 09-22-2005, 02:43 AM

If you're planning on calling the river no matter what, you might as well semi bluff raise the turn, maybe mp will fold some hands that beats you.

Paluka · #8 09-22-2005, 09:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you're planning on calling the river no matter what, you might as well semi bluff raise the turn, maybe mp will fold some hands that beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, because we can't fold if we get 3 bet.

PokerBob · #9 09-22-2005, 02:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No real reads here. Uncomfortable on all streets.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.66 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.83 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (9.83 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.83 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

fold the river. i may even consider folding the flop.

what can BB have that you beat here?

brick · #10 09-22-2005, 02:59 AM

If it weren't for UTG is would be an easy call down...

Flop bet could easily be a continuation bet by BB. UTG could have a worse king, JT, JQ. You have backdoor flush and straight draws. 5 cards for two pair. (discount these to 4 outs)

If a brick falls on the turn and BB bets and UTG calls I think it's a fold.

Problem is comes when a brick falls and BB checks on the turn, UTG will often bet his worse King or A high. So you have another borderline decision. IMO this borderline decision is what makes the flop hard to play.

EDIT: forgot this was 9 handed. Flop call is very boarderline if the BB and UTG are reasonable players.