AK vs Strassa

KaneKungFu123 · #1 07-19-2005, 06:01 PM

he might know know its me cause i got a new name. he likes to bluff, regardless.

Party Poker (7 handed) converter

10/20 NL

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero Raises to $80. Villian Calls in MP.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Hero Bets 190, Villian Calls 190

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villian bets $500. Hero Calls $500

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villian bets $1500. Hero folds.

Final Pot:

I initially planned to push the turn, but got cold feet.

ps: bisons converter is all [censored] up.

IHateCats · #2 07-19-2005, 06:18 PM

I agree with your original plan, Strassa being Strassa he's more likely than not going to take a shot at you at some point in the hand especially if you slow up as you did on the turn and he will definitely use any scare cards against you. You've pretty clearly defined on your hand on the turn, that lets him blast you off the hand when the 3rd spade comes regardless of whether he has it. I really don't like letting him see the river on just a call on the turn. Once that 9 does come I think you have to dump it, there are just too many drawing hands have have either hit or become runner runner 2 pair here plus the always present set risk.

I'm assuming both of you are not extraordinarily deep since you don't mention it.

To Make Bisons work follow instructions in this thread.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...14&fpart=1

Laomedon · #3 07-20-2005, 11:09 AM

Sorry, but how does checking the turn "define Hero's hand" as AK? If anything it reads as a continuation bet on a missed flop or perhaps (if strassa didn't know it was a 2+2'er he was playing against)a weakly played underpair scared of the ace.

I definitely think if you check the turn it should be with the intention of executing a c/r. Having never played against strassa but knowing a little of how he plays from what I've read here, he probably read your turn check as either weakness or pot control, your call further solidified his belief that you weren't that happy with your hand. The third spade offered him a good opportunity to take the pot away from you. Consensus, either lead the turn with a strong bet or go for the c/r. As played you probably have to reluctantly fold this river.

IMO strassa played this hand extremely well unless he actually hit his flush in which case he probably should've value bet the river for 800-1000 (but he probably did hit the flush and decided 1500 would look more like a bluff and therefore more likely to be called by Villain's AK, either way nh).

IHateCats · #4 07-20-2005, 11:41 AM

Hm, UTG raiser, check/calls pot sized turn bet with an A on the board against loose/aggressive player with position on him on board that's becoming increasingly draw heavy. What the hell else do you think Strassa is putting him on other than AK, AQ, or a big pair like KK or QQ not buying Strassa has the A? In short he's diagramming a big pair for his very, very aggro & dangerous opponent who will likely take it away from him if the obvious flush draw hits whether he has it or not. Strassa likely doesn't believe he's on AA, AsKs or AsQs since neither of those hands is likely to slow up here on this board.

Laomedon · #5 07-20-2005, 12:50 PM

You made my point for me. The check on the turn can indicate many things that I suggested (a scared underpair, a failed continuation bet on a missed flop, although considering Hero's position this is less likely) the flat call on the turn is another story.

The turn call suggests to strassa that Hero has a made hand, but one that he's not secure about playing OOP against a tricky opponent.

My recommendation of leading the turn makes the hand slightly easier to play. You lead and strassa raises, give it up. If he calls, well then you're probably [censored] but you're going to lose the same amount if you check/call the turn and then fold the river. So at least leading the turn keeps you in control of the hand to some degree. It could very well dissuade strassa from staying in the hand, and it also makes it much more difficult for him to try and take the pot away from you on the river if he is holding junk.

This is simply my thinking, it could very well be flawed. If it is, I would like to hear why a check/call on the turn is optimal in this spot.

EverettKings · #6 07-20-2005, 01:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]

You made my point for me. The check on the turn can indicate many things that I suggested (a scared underpair, a failed continuation bet on a missed flop, although considering Hero's position this is less likely) the flat call on the turn is another story.

The turn call suggests to strassa that Hero has a made hand, but one that he's not secure about playing OOP against a tricky opponent.

My recommendation of leading the turn makes the hand slightly easier to play. You lead and strassa raises, give it up. If he calls, well then you're probably [censored] but you're going to lose the same amount if you check/call the turn and then fold the river. So at least leading the turn keeps you in control of the hand to some degree. It could very well dissuade strassa from staying in the hand, and it also makes it much more difficult for him to try and take the pot away from you on the river if he is holding junk.

This is simply my thinking, it could very well be flawed. If it is, I would like to hear why a check/call on the turn is optimal in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only problem with leading the turn here is that if you don't take it down, life get's very very tricky. You're now OOP in a big pot vs you-don't-know-what hand while he has a pretty damn fine idea what you have. Meh...

Jason Strasser · #7 07-19-2005, 06:34 PM

Was this today? I really don't remember it at all. I think I recognized ur city but didnt remember it was you, but now I could probably put it all together.

Anyhow, for the record I'm kinda curious what strassa had hahaha... No joke I have no clue what I had here. Maybe it will come to me...

ObnxNole · #8 07-19-2005, 07:06 PM

What kind of hand do you put him after your flop bet? One more barrel on the turn may better define his hand. I think check calling the turn here is bad play unless you are prepared to call a huge bet on the river.

Jason Strasser · #9 07-19-2005, 07:11 PM

Oh I think I remember this hand. Played yesterday right?

I definitely remember it.

-Jason

EverettKings · #10 07-20-2005, 10:39 AM

OK, what hand are you folding to?

You'd think any made hand strassa could have on the river, unless he had reason to believe you'd think he was bluffing, he wouldn't fire so strongly given how scary the board was. If he made a flush or flopped a set, he's gotta know that he'll chase out a lot of hands on that board with a big bet. So? Great bet to bluff with. It's a great spot for a second barrel after a strong turn bet.

Strassa frequently takes a line like this with a flopped set, loves to overbet made hands and bluffs alike, and could well take it with a K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] type drawing hand, but on an obviously scary board that river bet sends a statement to you to get out of the pot, and I think that's just the message strassa2 wanted to send.

He's probably going to reply "bwahahah I had 78s for the straight flush baatch", and then I'd have to apologize for my syndrome of never wanting to credit that man for a hand. In any case, I'd have looked him up.

Kings