20-40 Hand

[Jeffage]

20-40 game on PP. I have AQo on the button. 5 people limp. I limp. The SB and BB come. 8 to the flop (good game). Flop is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (I have no hearts). Everyone checks. The turn is the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Now the SB bets and everyone folds to me. SB is unknown. Your play?

Jeff

[CardSharpCook]

Call down. Maybe he was hoping to slow-play his set, maybe he now likes his flush draw, maybe he thinks you like your flush draw. However, I raise this PF. Might as well juice it with the best hand and position.

Raise this pf. Call down on turn, WAY ahead or Way behidn situation.

[Jeffage]

I see little reason to raise this preflop after 5 limpers and facing loose blinds. Suited, I do it cause it plays better multiway. Offsuit, all the 78s type hands are gaining implied odds against me and will make fewer mistakes postflop.

Jeff

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
I see little reason to raise this preflop after 5 limpers and facing loose blinds. Suited, I do it cause it plays better multiway. Offsuit, all the 78s type hands are gaining implied odds against me and will make fewer mistakes postflop.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Your logic is faulty. Their implied odds don't change at all. However, their direct odds make it favorable for you to charge them now. It is true that they won't make as many mistakes, but they will pay you off correctly drawing to their outs. That is good too. Try it out, plug 5 limping hands into Pstove and compute your equatiy.

Here I'll do three:


Hand 1: 21.0309 % [ 00.20 00.01 ] { AQo }
Hand 2: 20.4265 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { 66 }
Hand 3: 10.4975 % [ 00.10 00.01 ] { 87s }
Hand 4: 05.8367 % [ 00.05 00.01 ] { A7o }
Hand 5: 20.0051 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { J8s }
Hand 6: 22.2032 % [ 00.22 00.00 ] { K4s }

OMG, K4s is the best hand. still with more than 1/6 eq, you are served to raise.
Hand 1: 29.0741 % [ 00.29 00.00 ] { AQo }
Hand 2: 13.0854 % [ 00.13 00.01 ] { 66 }
Hand 3: 14.1821 % [ 00.13 00.01 ] { 87s }
Hand 4: 07.0412 % [ 00.07 00.01 ] { 65o }
Hand 5: 21.2543 % [ 00.20 00.01 ] { J8s }
Hand 6: 15.3629 % [ 00.15 00.00 ] { 33 }

Clearer here, but none of your cards are gone.

Hand 1: 23.0640 % [ 00.22 00.01 ] { AQo }
Hand 2: 10.5298 % [ 00.09 00.01 ] { A3s }
Hand 3: 20.0305 % [ 00.20 00.00 ] { T7s }
Hand 4: 21.4472 % [ 00.21 00.01 ] { KJo }
Hand 5: 13.5367 % [ 00.13 00.01 ] { J8s }
Hand 6: 11.3918 % [ 00.11 00.01 ] { 33 }

Still a raise.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
Your logic is faulty

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't just calling with AQo in that situation right out of HPFAP?

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your logic is faulty

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't just calling with AQo in that situation right out of HPFAP?

[/ QUOTE ]


as good as HPFAP is, it has some questionable stuff in it

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi SA125:

You need to reread HPFAP again and in the "Loose Games" section you will discover this paragraph:

[ QUOTE ]
There is a bit of a two-edged sword here. If you’re playing against extremely terrible opponents, it’s hard not to raise with pretty good hands because even though you’re costing yourself money on the later streets, your’re gaining so much before the flop because your hand is usually so much better than theirs. In other words, if people are coming in with absolutely everything, you have got to raise with an AQ simply because your hand is so much better on average than so many of the other players.


[/ QUOTE ]

So as to whether a raise is correct with the ace-queen offsuit depends on the players who have entered the pot. Without being there, I would say that in general at the $20-$40 limit, you're probably better off just calling, but in some games a raise will clearly be correct. (And if your ace-queen was suited, a raise would always be correct for some additional reasons I won't address here.)

Best wishes,
Mason

[Piiop]

CSC,

When you do these calcs, try using a range of hands for the limpers instead of specific hands. PokerStove is great because it allows you to do exactly that. It takes a little longer to get the numbers, but it's worth it and correctly applies to the situation.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
CSC,

When you do these calcs, try using a range of hands for the limpers instead of specific hands. PokerStove is great because it allows you to do exactly that. It takes a little longer to get the numbers, but it's worth it and correctly applies to the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]


in general I agree, but in this case I think he was generous in giving the limpers good hands, which means his equity will probably be even slightly higher