Routine fold?

[spamuell]

Pacific Poker .5/1 10 handed. My first orbit at pacific - I bought in for the minimum that I needed to get a bonus so I could play the 20k tourney (see you there ProfLupin) and I'm playing a little .5/1 to get used to the site. I have no particular reads on any main players in this hand, but so far everyone is ridiculously loose passive - checking behind on river with A8 when board has two eights, checking top pair K kicker all the way to the river, stuff like that. I'm really shocked at how passive everyone is.

Hero is on the button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

UTG folds, EP1 folds, EP2 limps, EP3 raises (not usually a PF raise here), two cold callers, I make it 3-bets, BB calls two, EP2 calls as well, raiser caps (uh oh), everyone calls.

Six of us to the flop:

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checked to PFR who bets, 2 calls to me, I fold. The pot is really pretty big, but does someone ever not have an ace here?

I think I'd usually fold here anyway on most sites, although I might toss in a raise, but at this loose-passive fest, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see AA (from the PFR) or A2-AK from anyone else. Six ways for 4 bets, the pot is 24SBs so I actually have the odds to call to try to spike my set (assuming the PFR doesn't have AA so I don't think folding is a massive mistake), although I didn't realise at the time, so I should have called. But if I miss on the turn and the action is the same - bet, call, call, it's a clear fold, right?

[ProfLupin]

Yes, definately fold here at pacific. You have to get up to 2/4 before finding much more aggression on that site.

The beauty of the place is when you hit your set. Just imagine the action! See you at the tourney.

[Peter Harris]

forgive me jumping in on this thread.
With JJ in that situation, a few weeks ago i would have mucked them on the flop, but Majorkong's post has had me attacking (or at least calling along) middle pair. I find on Pacific [and the cheap SnG's) that this works rather well. Maybe not in the long run.

If i play the sunday tournament, it will be my biggest ever (finished 20th out of 222 on party once). I fear that at least two 2+2ers will be there; i *was* hoping for 500 fish!

It'll be 2am when i start here, too.

See you at the final tables (?)

All the best,
Peter

PS with a $20,000 prize pool, can anyone -guess- at the prize pool? I'm just wondering where the payout will start if there are 500 people [and at $10 buy in, where is the remaining $15k coming from in the pool? i assume there won't be 2000 people playing in this tournament...and if so, i may pass it up.]

[GuyOnTilt]

With JJ in that situation, a few weeks ago i would have mucked them on the flop, but Majorkong's post has had me attacking (or at least calling along) middle pair. I find on Pacific [and the cheap SnG's) that this works rather well. Maybe not in the long run.

This is exactly why I didn't like MK's post. It will simply get misconstrued and misapplied too much by too many players here. His hand sucks on that flop after the preflop action. Calling is correct, but only because he's getting correct odds to draw, not because his hand may be best. You shouldn't be going any further than the turn with this one unless you hit your 2-outer.

GoT

[Peter Harris]

I am aware that, given the play, an A was likely, but the odds were indeed good. To be fair, the fact that i mucked them on the flop before and now i stay to the turn and sometimes river at least mean i am changing my game from weak-tight to tight-aggressive. And paying much closer attention to pot odds. Right??

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
To be fair, the fact that i mucked them on the flop before and now i stay to the turn and sometimes river at least mean i am changing my game from weak-tight to tight-aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you stayed until the turn: Game changing from bad to good

If you stayed until the river: Game changing from bad to worse

[GuyOnTilt]

To be fair, the fact that i mucked them on the flop before and now i stay to the turn and sometimes river at least mean i am changing my game from weak-tight to tight-aggressive.

Calling the flop with odds to draw, and calling the turn without them has nothing to do with being tight/aggressive. Unless you're getting about 20:1 on your turn call (like chesspain said), calling the turn is losing you money.

GoT

[spamuell]

After my fold, the turn and river were blanks, the PF raiser bet again on the turn and was called by 2 opponents, and again on the river and was called by both. He shows KQo for the nut no pair!

The first caller shows J5o for a pair of 5s, and takes it down!

I was absolutely shocked. Am I being results orientated, how often does no one have an ace (or KK, QQ or a set) here?

[ProfLupin]

I know...this stuff happens all the time. Although 90% of the players there are loose/passive calling stations, there always seems to be one or two maniacs lurking at the same table. Result...HUGE POTS! You have to learn not to get sucked in with the boarderline hands. Your good hands will more than pay hands like these off.

[HajiShirazu]

Wow, that's crazy. You of course should go ahead and call to try and spike a jack and fold the turn unmproved. Yeah, this one sucks, but you would have had to call two more to find out if your jacks are good. And in this situations I don't think your hand is good often enough to make that worthwhile. Heck, even if he doesnt have an ace, the PFR could have KK or QQ. And unless they're idiots, one of those three callers probably has an ace. Oh wait, they are idiots. But even idiots are occasionaly dealt an ace.
My god, pacific has the worst players ever. The games aren't much different from this all the way up to 5/10, in my experience. And the higher games are also terrible. If I wanted to play at a B&M pace, I'd probably go play there.