Raise this river?

Baloosh · #1 06-03-2005, 07:01 AM

CO was a LAG. The 8 scared me. I called the turn with the intention of raising the river. (Color me weak/tight.) Is this river worth one more BB (raise) often enough to be profitable?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, CO caps, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, CO raises, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, CO raises, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 19.75 BB

einbert · #2 06-03-2005, 07:09 AM

3-bet the turn, you have EP beat here 100% of the time and CO most of the time. If he caps the turn I start thinking about slowing down.

The way you played it I think it's pretty much mandatory that you three-bet the river and call a cap.

You need to be willing to get in there and go to war with a LAG, ESPECIALLY when another player is calling down that you know you have beat. In fact you should be going to war with LAGs with a lot less than an overpair.

iNsChris · #3 06-03-2005, 09:20 AM

Ok co Caps, So maybe a good hand.

Preflop: Fine.
Flop: Fine
Turn: RAISE! If he has JJ(may do if he caps, Or is stupid with KK/QQ) then SLOW down (Check/Call river).
River: Depending on turn action from CO as i said.

THink you won this, Unless he flips JJ.

aK13 · #4 06-03-2005, 09:27 AM

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero caps, SB calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, SB calls $0.50 (All-In), MP3 calls.

River: (20.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

SB has KK.
God knows what MP3 is calling all the caps with and folding to 1 bet on the river.

EDIT: If he had more money, I would have continued to cap every street with him.

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As for your hand, unless he's a pure maniac, he isn't capping you with an 8. Since he's laggy, he *might* cap with JJ, but I wouldn't hesitate to just go beserk with him on every street on that board.

sholvar · #5 06-03-2005, 09:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero caps, SB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, UTG+2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero caps, SB calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, MP3 calls, Hero raises, SB calls $0.50 (All-In), MP3 calls.

River: (20.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 21.50 BB

SB has KK.
God knows what MP3 is calling all the caps with and folding to 1 bet on the river.

EDIT: If he had more money, I would have continued to cap every street with him.

------

As for your hand, unless he's a pure maniac, he isn't capping you with an 8. Since he's laggy, he *might* cap with JJ, but I wouldn't hesitate to just go beserk with him on every street on that board.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO here are 2 possible Reasons for the aggression of the Small Blind.
1. He is on Tilt
2. He has King or Ace Pockets.

I think you will win here in over 60% of the time against SB. That's why I think, value-cap is the right answer.

But since SB is allin, you should not bet. I don't think that MP3 will call or raise with less then straight here on the River. Thus, if you are better you get no bet from MP3 (avg .5/1 Players may call with near every Hand, but this one is IMO frightened because of the Aggression of his opponents), but if he has a better Hand he will call or raise and cost you 1 or 2 bets.

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
shol

aK13 · #6 06-03-2005, 09:43 AM

I agree. The river definitely wasn't autobet, but I figure he could just be calling down with TP of 9s or something, and I thought the value bet on the end was fine.

vulturesrow · #7 06-03-2005, 09:30 AM

I wouldve raised the turn. The way you played pretty much demands a river raise given your read. As someone else said, you have to got to play back at the LAGs. It will increase your variance but you are going to take down some nice pots too.

atnels · #8 06-03-2005, 10:33 AM

Yes, in the long run LAGs will pad your roll. Learn to love them. There will be frustrating times when your AA gets cracked by a raggedy 2-pair and you've been putting in bets like crazy on every street, but just keep playing aggressive and it will pay off.

HentaiGaijin · #9 06-03-2005, 02:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, in the long run LAGs will pad your roll. Learn to love them. There will be frustrating times when your AA gets cracked by a raggedy 2-pair and you've been putting in bets like crazy on every street, but just keep playing aggressive and it will pay off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it really is all about the LAG payoff. Had a table last night with a woman who had 100% VP$IP and was raising preflop 75% of the time over 60 hands. You have to be wary and tighten up a little bit, but once you make a hand the whole night is made worthwhile. This chick sat down with 50 bucks, went up to 75 then proceeded to lose it all. Even if you only win one pot against the LAG, the size of the pot can justify the evening's play.

Bodhi · #10 06-03-2005, 01:29 PM

You can play this hand more aggressively. I would 3 bet the turn and the river.

Focus on hands other than AA to improve your play.