Bigger Mistake: Phillips or Hansen?

[Vince Lepore]

In the WPT Finals at Bellago. OK I don't know the dates but it's the one where the last three are Philips, Hansen and Tomko. Hansen has 2.3M, Philips 2.8M and Tomko has 800k.

I ragged on Philips about this situation last year. I believe that both Hansen and Philips made big mistakes on this hand. I know I'm right about that but I wonder which made the bigger mistake. For those of you that didn't see the hand:

blinds were T25-50K.

sb: Phillips T2.8M
bb: Tomko T800k
button: Hansen T2.3M

Hansen: TT, Raise T250K
Phillips: All-in T2.8M
Tomko: fold
Hansen: Call.

The only play that I think was correct was Tomko's fold. I also believe that Hansen's call was a bigger mistake than Phillips move in. Anyone agree? Why?

Vince [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[riverboatking]

well its hard to say who made the bigger mistake since i don't know what PP had here.
but i can comment on what each player might have been thinking.
while i don't know the exact payout structure i'm assuming there is a pretty significant jump in prize money between 2nd and 3rd place.

with that in mind PP (paul phillips) probably knows that gus can't call an all in without a premimum hand due to the fact that dewey is so short stacked. pp may then try and steal from gus so that he can increase his chip lead and have a greater shot at winning the title, which we know is pp main goal.

now gus may know this fact and therefore put pp on a wider range of hands and therefore decide that he has way the best of it and call, knowing that if he wins he is virtually assured first place.

it is very possible that in this situation neither player made a mistake whatsoever.

pp knows that it will be hard for gus to call in that spot without aa or kk and gus knows pp knows this so he calls w/10-10.

by the way what did pp have i never saw the episode.

[Vince Lepore]

[ QUOTE ]
pp knows that it will be hard for gus to call in that spot without aa or kk

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you have never watched Gus Hansen play. PP knows Hansen WILL call with a heck of a wider randge of hands than A,A or K,K.

Vince

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
pp knows that it will be hard for gus to call in that spot without aa or kk

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe you have never watched Gus Hansen play. PP knows Hansen WILL call with a heck of a wider randge of hands than A,A or K,K.

[/ QUOTE ]

which makes the play even more correct. if as you say PP knows gus will call with "a heck of a wider range then AA or KK" then why not reraise and welcome a call by a dominated hand? however PP doesn't in fact know this.
you talk as though all this happened after most of gus's tv appearances.
in fact this was one of the earlier episodes before PSI and the other wtp shows.
your assumptions as to PP thinking about what gus will call with are absurd and not really based on objective facts.
besides that maybe you should reread my intial response (the first in this thread) in which i clearly laid out why neither player made a mistake in this hand.
ITS CALLED POKER and sometimes in poker two hands go to showdown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
besides that not one person has given a different opinion.
no one besides you has attempted to show that one player made a mistake and your attempts have not been compelling.


ps. how do you do the quote inside a quote?

[Paul Phillips]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that both Hansen and Philips made big mistakes on this hand. I know I'm right about that

[/ QUOTE ]

Somehow that's cute when david does it. With you, the effect is to prove you should keep your psychiatrist on speed-dial.

[riverboatking]

just curious....what did you have? and how did the hand play out?

[Seadood228]

Paul had AQ... That was one of the more memorable hands from last year.

I don't see how anyone can criticize Paul's play here, or Mr. Hansen's for that matter. Paul's AQ figures to be good against a wide range of Gus' holdings, and his extreme overbet might even get Gus to fold some of the hands that are ahead, especially ones that have a significant preflop edge.

I'm not sure of any better way to play that hand in Paul's situation. Calling out of position seems pretty weak, especially for a big stack. Re-raising could be dangerous as well, given Gus could very well move in with a smaller ace..

As far as Gus goes, I guess he could have folded to the allin, but the way Paul appeared to be playing Gus that evening, I don't think you can fault him for taking the chance. Plus, if I recall correctly, Paul had position on Gus for 2/3 of 3 handed play..

But hey what do I know? I haven't come close to the pressure of a 10k event, let alone one that is being televised.

That episode was the best to date IMO. I only wish we could have seen all the hands..

[drewjustdrew]

I think the play was fine. Neither player at this point could put the other on a dominating hand when playing three handed. My question is - what are the blind and ante sizes? Was Tomko in a desparate situation with only $800,000? If not, Tomko can wait for a chance to double through and it would be anyone's game. I don't think this is similar to what happened at the Bellagio last week with the Phams and Mortensen with regards to moving up the prize ladder.

[Ghazban]

I think the blinds were 50K/100K with a 10K ante, giving Dewey Tomko about 8xBB-- Hansen and Phillips could probably have guaranteed themselves 1st and 2nd if they specifically aimed to knock out the short stack. As it was, they both wanted 1st badly enough to get involved in a race situation that would result in one of them entering the headup portion with a huge chip advantage and the other going home in 3rd place. For what its worth (i.e. not much given my low stakes/low experience situation), I don't think either of them played it badly.

[Vince Lepore]

[ QUOTE ]
the effect is to prove you should keep your psychiatrist on speed-dial.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now see Paul, I say your play was a mistake and you divert my ontention to one of personal attacks. I guess you'll never change. Poor baby.

Vince