I was told I wass playing junk. What do you think?

JapaneseSandman · #1 02-16-2005, 11:42 AM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP2 (poster) checks, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (17.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 26.50 BB

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP2 (poster) checks, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (17.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 26.50 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has 2c 5d (two pair, fives and twos).
UTG+1 has Ks 2h (two pair, kings and twos).
Hero has Js Ts (straight, king high).
MP3 doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins 26.50 BB.

bigmac366 · #2 02-16-2005, 11:44 AM

not nearly as junky as the hands they showed down. but seriously.....flop good, turn baaaaaaad. just call.

easypete · #3 02-16-2005, 11:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
not nearly as junky as the hands they showed down. but seriously.....flop good, turn baaaaaaad. just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is the turn bad?

any Q is good... any spade is good. That's 12 outs. You are going to win 26% of the time here. If all 3 players see the turn capped... it's still +EV (although very slightly). Hmm... says 4 players, but only see 3. hmmmmm.... vs 3 opponents, capping slightly +EV. vs 2 opponents calling good.

and... 52o... garbage???? that's heresy!!! 52o is a group 1 hand.

bigmac366 · #4 02-16-2005, 12:02 PM

you make an excellent point pete....i'll admit i didnt put as much thought into it as you did. i wouldve liked the raise if it had been a Q on the turn, it just didnt seem like getting an additional 4 outs helps much when you no longer have any overcard outs.

bear187 · #5 02-16-2005, 12:06 PM

When you have a monster draw like this that no one is folding to you want to build the pot so the 1/4 times you hit, you hit for the maximum. Nice hands.

yecul · #6 02-16-2005, 12:06 PM

Overaggressive on the turn, but other than that NH. I don't see why they thought your hand was junky, especially compared with what they showed. Maybe they thought you were commenting on your draw aggression.

Would it be wrong to raise pf?

DavidC · #7 02-16-2005, 12:43 PM

hehehe...

I was going to say that he may even be just a little early or would have prefered another limper to even be in the hand.

I would probably be wrong, but it all depends on how the table is playing, right?

However, I don't think JTs is a raising hand unless you're in good position vs a 3+ bad limpers.

Wario · #8 02-16-2005, 12:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not nearly as junky as the hands they showed down. but seriously.....flop good, turn baaaaaaad. just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is the turn bad?

any Q is good... any spade is good. That's 12 outs. You are going to win 26% of the time here. If all 3 players see the turn capped... it's still +EV (although very slightly). Hmm... says 4 players, but only see 3. hmmmmm.... vs 3 opponents, capping slightly +EV. vs 2 opponents calling good.

and... 52o... garbage???? that's heresy!!! 52o is a group 1 hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are only two opponents on the turn so with pot equity of 26% raising is -EV right?

Also 3-betting has a decent chance of knocking out BB, which is bad.

Hero likely doesn't have all clean outs because someone could have a set or a flush could boat up two pair or something.

EDIT: OK converter error MP3 is in there somewhere. But it's very unlikely he's going to call 3 bets cold on the turn.

Greg J · #9 02-16-2005, 12:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
any Q is good... any spade is good. That's 12 outs. You are going to win 26% of the time here. If all 3 players see the turn capped... it's still +EV (although very slightly). Hmm... says 4 players, but only see 3. hmmmmm.... vs 3 opponents, capping slightly +EV. vs 2 opponents calling good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite pete, but close. He is actually getting slightly UNDER 26% equity here. The reason: occassionally when he hits his gutshot there will be a split pot (JT is a popular hand to play), and he will occassionally loose to a higher flush. 3 betting here is an error, but a minor one.

Edit: plus if a spade pairs the board this makes for obviously problems.

DavidC · #10 02-16-2005, 12:45 PM

If the pot were bigger, then 3-betting the turn may have been a good idea, to buy 5% more of the pot: folding the other gutshot.

However, the pot was small enough on the turn that such a play would have been unprofitable given its cost.

--Dave.