I throw myself at the mercy of the MTT forum. Help an old pooh-bah

[whiskeytown]

I can't take it anymore - in the few weeks since I've been off the sauce, I cannot help but accept a simple fact - my MTT game sucks. I cannot make it a winning game - I've studied fairly well, played enough LL games - I have a bit of a problem reading Harrington because of one of those attention deficit issues, but I'm gonna go over him again on the airplane to Reno this weekend.

I'm pretty good at the top 20% - My Weak Tight style of play opening up in the middle works ok - a lot of the times if I get that close I'm in the money but not much past the edge of it.

I'm missing something - some little piece that puts all that together and clicks - I'm thinking of maybe sitting out with a piece of paper and a pen and just making a decision to bluff one out of ten hands I think is unplayable just to do it - try to see a flop or something.

I will devour MLG's and ExitOnly's recent posts with great veracity - but guys - what pushed you that last 20 percent?

I think my biggest problem is I don't think I bet enough - I'm so scared of getting re-raised/bluffed off a hand I'd rather check/call so I know exactly every action how much it'll cost me to do -

I didn't realize it really until I wrote that how much it's in my head - how important it is for me that I need to know how much that next card is gonna cost before I pay to see it -

the idea the price is going up terrifies me - Interestingly enough - some of my greatest tourney successes of the last year before this dry spell I was all in more, probably in an attempt to stave off bluffing -

Or maybe this is a throwback to my limit days where I know that even if I get raised I still know how much it'll be - and without that certainity here, I don't want to bet too much with something like 66 even though it's probably a +EV event over time on a J42 board with one opponent.

Interesting - I'll roll that over in my head but in the meantime - guys - what was that one little spark that pushed you into winning territory - I was sorta there a couple years ago, but I've backslidden into medocrity lately - haven't had a finish over $422 all year according to my records, and that was a live Shootout in Laughlin.

Just not hitting this year, and I know the fields are bigger, but I should still be making the money in 10% of them over time - and I am doing that, but it's not enough and I'm running at a deficit. Can't get a big score at all and can't get a win this year....

phooey.

RB

[ZBTHorton]

I went through the same thing a couple of months ago, and came to the same conclusion that I think you are realizing.

Sometimes, you just have to play more hands.

As we all know, the whole key to getting a 'big cash' is having a big stack. You don't get a big stack by playing 14% of your flops, and checking when your AK misses.

Open up your game. When you call a raise in the blinds, lead it out with less than normal. Steal, steal, steal. Late in tournaments, be one of those guys who pushes almost any two from the button when folded to. Call w/ position with suited connectors, suited one gappers, etc.

I know some people may disagree with some of this stuff, but placing 120th in the 11R doesn't mean crap. I finished 180th in the 40K last night for a profit of 11$. It means nothing. It's all about the big stack. It's all about going deep. It's all about no fear, because if you play scared, you will continue to barely eeek into the money.

[whiskeytown]

For a while there I was just nailing the 11-16% bracket - just chump change or just shy of the bubble

and I tried to tell myself - "Imagine you're playing this KNOWING you will bubble - so now, knowing that you WILL bubble near the end - how will you play this A4 suited in mid position with 50 players to the money - will you just limp meekly again hoping to flop a flush draw you can push all in on? - or will you try to bet and pick up some blinds for the fight.

That sort of thing - but I've sorta been on hiatus - as winter comes in and I get my PC hooked up to my new 55 inch TV, I'm gonna focus on playing one tournament at time and re-building my reputation.

I think my weak-tight play may have been ok about 3 years ago - not stellar but I did ok in small fields - but I think my luck factor goes way up in larger fields and I need more to compensate for it - Nothing wrong with waiting for a big hand to make money - but if you can't outlast swings of luck - it's no good.

RB

[Rizen]

[ QUOTE ]
and I tried to tell myself - "Imagine you're playing this KNOWING you will bubble - so now, knowing that you WILL bubble near the end - how will you play this A4 suited in mid position with 50 players to the money - will you just limp meekly again hoping to flop a flush draw you can push all in on? - or will you try to bet and pick up some blinds for the fight.

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're limping with A4s late in a tournament, that's probably your leak. As the blinds go up and the tournament field grows smaller, most players go to one of two extremes. Either they become super tight, trying to eek out a little more money, or they become super aggressive trying to constantly steal the blinds.

In my experience, you need to try and figure out which category the players at your table fall into. At the very least you need to try and figure out the goals of the players two to your left and two to your right. Find out who is playing passive, and punish them mercilessly. Then find out who is getting out of line, and come over the top of them with your legitimate hands.

It's tough to put an exact finger on it though, the best thing I can say is keep at it. I was in the same boat as you for a LONG time where I would cash in my fair share of tournaments, but if I went deep it was because the deck ran over me. Eventually after you get some experience with it and get deep a few times it starts to come together, and your results improve.

Good luck, and post some hands from times you get deep into tournaments (if you don't already) for review.

-Rizen

[gambelero2]

This may come as a shock to you, but limping off with a4 mp suited or not is extremely loose. I'm amazed at how many people think they play tight, but when you see their play you see why they lose and it's not because they play too tight or not agressive enough.

[whiskeytown]

regarding the circumstance - it was an example - not gospel -

if I'm in mid with no people at all and a less then average stack it's a raise sometimes - if I'm short stacked it's an all-in - I tend not to do it with limpers, esp. EP limpers

RB

[ QUOTE ]
It's all about no fear, because if you play scared, you will continue to barely eeek into the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

So true. My first 20 or so MTTs, I felt great because I would finish 140th and get into the money and receive $40.

Now, I am often bust before the 4th break because I'm trying to win it, not make $40.

[ZBTHorton]

Remember that the strength of your hands increases late in tournaments. Top pair suddenly becomes more powerful, because more people are bluffing/stealing.

Use that to your advantage. Be the bluffer/stealer. Otherwise, we're all just playin the cards.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's all about no fear, because if you play scared, you will continue to barely eeek into the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

So true. My first 20 or so MTTs, I felt great because I would finish 140th and get into the money and receive $40.

Now, I am often bust before the 4th break because I'm trying to win it, not make $40.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been to about 9 or 10 final tables in big tourneys(by big I mean buy ins of over $150 and fields of over 1000). In at least 5 of those 10, I was the shortest stack at my table for the majority of the final few hours.

I've also entered the final table as the short stack at least 3 or 4 times, and in each of those times I've made the final 5.

I don't say all this to brag...I say this to debunk the myth that you need to accumulate chips around the bubble stage in order to win big in a tourney.

As long as you can steal the blinds once every round, you can play forever no matter your stack size. If I have 6-10x BB I am perfectly content with that and I feel as if I can stay at 6-10x BB throughout the tourney.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
As long as you can steal the blinds once every round, you can play forever no matter your stack size. If I have 6-10x BB I am perfectly content with that and I feel as if I can stay at 6-10x BB throughout the tourney.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well yes that's quite a tautology, but obviously you can't always steal the blinds once around because sooner or later, you are going to get called. You will win sometimes of course, but if you are pushing often enough to win the blinds once a round, you are usually going to be an underdog when called. Also, if you are just surviving with 6-10x the BB, the blinds are going to go up and suddenly you're going to have 3-7x the BB or whatever.

You are correct of course that it's easy to take the aggression thing too far, but it's also certainly true that you do need to adjust your aggression upwards as your stack slips to 15-20x the BB.