KQs versus a fish, a tag and a 2+2er

mr pink · #1 06-06-2005, 09:19 PM

mp2 is fishy like 60/5/.6 fishy
CO has taggish stats but is relatively unknown - 21/11/2.5

sb is a 2+2er with the party handle "twoplustwo4" - show yourself - i'm curious as to what you dumped on the river.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls, CO 3-bets, Button calls, 2+2er calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
2+2er checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Button calls, 2+2er raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button folds, 2+2er calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
2+2er checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, 2+2er calls.

River: (15.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
2+2er checks, Hero bets, MP2 folds, 2+2er folds.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB

i think i effed this one up on the flop, but it worked out to my advantage in the end.

- comments on all streets appreciated.

TheDelChop · #2 06-06-2005, 09:44 PM

This might be bordering on a really nice play.

I am not sure if you got the CO to lay down a better hand. If I was in the cutoff and I bet my AK and it was check-raised then 3 bet b4 it got to me I would be very uncomfortable, but then again he could be laying down a hand like QQ or JJ that you would want calling.

The SB checkraise screams a weak K or maybe some kind of strong draw, maybe QJs.

Either way I don't think its that bad. If the CO called, I would have to think that he can beat me but would bet the turn because of my new draw.

I would check the river if he continued to call and I missed, now pretty sure he's gonna show AK or AA, but I think most of the time you can isolate two people who you are ahead of. Nice Play!

mr pink · #3 06-06-2005, 09:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
again he could be laying down a hand like QQ or JJ that you would want calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is more likely than him folding AK here... but still i see what you're saying. in my experience, the check/3-bet is usually a stronger hand than tpgk... i'd be thinking a set.

[ QUOTE ]
The SB checkraise screams a weak K or maybe some kind of strong draw, maybe QJs.

[/ QUOTE ]

which is what i was thinking too.

i'm still not sure what to do about the flop. betting into the CO and hoping for a raise would have been the standard hand protection play, but i don't know if he'd try and push the envelope there with a hand i was ahead of (QQ/JJ) since he was facing a pf raise and 4 opponents.

i really dunno.

Shillx · #4 06-06-2005, 09:53 PM

sb is a 2+2er with the party handle "twoplustwo4"

Wow this is interesting. This is an odd card to play but oh well.

The way this hand went down, the only hand that you can have the 2+2er on is AK. No other hand makes sense after he calls the flop 3-bet and check/calls the turn. I would check the river.

Brad

thirddan · #5 06-06-2005, 09:57 PM

the 2+2ers play is pretty odd to me, the only hands i can think of that he might call 3with preflop are AK and JJ, but i think he should be able to get away from JJ on the flop and he should showdown if he has AK, A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is the only possibility that also makes sense to me, although i wouldn't like the preflop call...

mr pink · #6 06-06-2005, 09:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
sb is a 2+2er with the party handle "twoplustwo4"

Wow this is interesting. This is an odd card to play but oh well.

[/ QUOTE ]

odd handle for a 2+2er, or odd that i posted it?

[ QUOTE ]
The way this hand went down, the only hand that you can have the 2+2er on is AK. No other hand makes sense after he calls the flop 3-bet and check/calls the turn. I would check the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't think he plays that way with a weak King?

thirddan · #7 06-06-2005, 09:59 PM

"you don't think he plays that way with a weak King? "

what king is a 2+2 calling 3 cold with here that is not AK? and if it is AK he should show it down...

mr pink · #8 06-06-2005, 10:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"you don't think he plays that way with a weak King? "

what king is a 2+2 calling 3 cold with here that is not AK? and if it is AK he should show it down...

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, edit that... i'm a retard.

Shillx · #9 06-06-2005, 10:00 PM

What weak king is coolcalling 3-bets preflop? A 2p2er isn't going to play KQs in this spot imo. He certainly doesn't have KT or Kx here.

Thirddan brought up another possible hand (AQ [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]). This makes sense when you look at the entire hand, but there is only one way that he can have this compared to 8 ways that he could have AK.

Brad

Pink: I find it odd that a 2+2er would have the handle "twoplustwo4", not that you posted this hand.

DMBFan23 · #10 06-06-2005, 10:00 PM

really? I would think 2+2er has something like AsQs, I think AK probably caps the flop especially if he has the As.

EDIT: although why not bet-3bet with AQs on the flop? I guess two plus two-er could have KQs of his own, but then he really shouldnt have seen the flop.

regardless, I'm not sure a (good) 2+2er check calls on the turn without just a flush draw or some AK FPS, especially against TAGs who will take free cards with possible draws of their own and will call with worse Ks.

if TAG checkraises the turn (which would be PIMP with a set IMO, but maybe I'm being results oriented) then we are in a difficult spot, but when he calls the turn I think we have an easy value bet with these other players in the pot on the river.

EDIT: I really think he should also cap preflop with AK because he is against a player (OP) who can and will fold for two more bets.

EDIT again: easier cap preflop because MP2 is likely dead money against AK