PS 2/4: AJs

Scotch78 · #1 08-31-2005, 04:53 PM

I was 8-tabling and (mis)thought it was a steal-raise, but am wondering if my re-raise is okay anyhow? Also, does anyone call this river?

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 raises, 4 folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Scott

hobbsmann · #2 08-31-2005, 04:59 PM

You're ahead of JJ, but I don't think sane players value bet jacks on a AKQxx board after you 3-bet preflop. As for the preflop 3-bet, I think it's a little thin, but not entirely bad. Of course it becomes standard if open raiser is in a steal position.

Crimson · #3 08-31-2005, 05:03 PM

Firstly, i'd probably fold this hand PF. Depending on the read and because of its Nut flush possibility, I can see the 3betting, because at 2/4 some people will openraise w/ JTs or a mid pocket pair. Raising does help you take control of the hand, but when he caps it you should be scared. All in all, I fold PF.

This is full of some loose calls, but i dont claim to be an expert, it just seems to me that the farther you get into this the more you should be cringing. How many outs do you give yourself on the Flop? The 4 10's are probably clean, but I dont know if you can even count the A at all, because he could be capping, AA-10's, AKs, AQs.

If i had a solid read on this player i might call, but it seems like a fold.

Feedback, im new myself!

hobbsmann · #4 08-31-2005, 05:12 PM

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Firstly, i'd probably fold this hand PF. Depending on the read and because of its Nut flush possibility, I can see the 3betting, because at 2/4 some people will openraise w/ JTs or a mid pocket pair. Raising does help you take control of the hand, but when he caps it you should be scared. All in all, I fold PF.

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This is too weak.

Scotch78 · #5 08-31-2005, 05:15 PM

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This is full of some loose calls

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Unless I'm having a total brain fart right now, folding this one anywhere before the river is an absolute no-no. I have way too much hand to fold pre-flop, on the flop I'm getting 9.5:1 on a 10.5:1 draw to the nuts with plenty of implied odds to cover the spread, and on the turn I'm getting 6:1 on a 3:1 draw to the nuts.

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The 4 10's are probably clean, but I don't know if you can even count the A at all

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First off, a ten gives me the nuts; there's no 'probably' about it. Second, I wouldn't have folded the river if I was counting the ace.

Scott

hobbsmann · #6 08-31-2005, 05:16 PM

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This is full of some loose calls, but i dont claim to be an expert, it just seems to me that the farther you get into this the more you should be cringing. How many outs do you give yourself on the Flop? The 4 10's are probably clean, but I dont know if you can even count the A at all, because he could be capping, AA-10's, AKs, AQs.

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The flop call is easy getting 9.5:1 with a gutshot, bk flush draw, and discounted A outs. The turn call is super easy getting over 6:1 on a flush and gutshot draw. By the river I think we've realized that our pair of aces is good here close to never and the fold is in order.

kenberman · #7 08-31-2005, 06:39 PM

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The flop call is easy getting 9.5:1 with a gutshot, bk flush draw, and discounted A outs. The turn call is super easy getting over 6:1 on a flush and gutshot draw.

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By the river I think we've realized that our pair of aces is good here close to never and the fold is in order.

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You can't count your Aces as outs on the flop if you're going to fold the river, HU, for 1 bet when an Ace hits. also, why does an Ace go from an out on the flop, but not the turn? it's not like we've gained any more information on the opponents hands.

hobbsmann · #8 08-31-2005, 06:42 PM

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The flop call is easy getting 9.5:1 with a gutshot, bk flush draw, and discounted A outs. The turn call is super easy getting over 6:1 on a flush and gutshot draw.

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By the river I think we've realized that our pair of aces is good here close to never and the fold is in order.

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You can't count your Aces as outs on the flop if you're going to fold the river, HU, for 1 bet when an Ace hits. also, why does an Ace go from an out on the flop, but not the turn? it's not like we've gained any more information on the opponents hands.

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I should have been more clear, but given the villian's range JJ-TT will bet the flop, but will more than likely slow down by the river. So on the flop there is a small chance or A outs are good, but as the hand proceeds it becomes apparent that they were not.

Argus · #9 08-31-2005, 06:46 PM

<blockquote>En réponse à:<hr />
You can't count your Aces as outs on the flop if you're going to fold the river, HU, for 1 bet when an Ace hits. also, why does an Ace go from an out on the flop, but not the turn? it's not like we've gained any more information on the opponents hands.

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You don't need to count any ace outs for a flop call to be correct. You have 5.5 effective outs, and getting 9.5-1 you shouldn't fold.

One reason you might consider the aces to be worth perhaps a single out on the flop and not the turn is the possibility villain has QQ. While JJ may have capped preflop, I don't see a thinking villain (or most unthinking ones for that matter) betting it again on the river when the ace falls and all you've done is call. So on the turn the possibility that your ace is any good disappears.

sean c · #10 08-31-2005, 05:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Firstly, i'd probably fold this hand PF. Depending on the read and because of its Nut flush possibility, I can see the 3betting, because at 2/4 some people will openraise w/ JTs or a mid pocket pair. Raising does help you take control of the hand, but when he caps it you should be scared. All in all, I fold PF.

This is full of some loose calls, but i dont claim to be an expert, it just seems to me that the farther you get into this the more you should be cringing. How many outs do you give yourself on the Flop? The 4 10's are probably clean, but I dont know if you can even count the A at all, because he could be capping, AA-10's, AKs, AQs.

If i had a solid read on this player i might call, but it seems like a fold.

Feedback, im new myself!

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Also Crimson there wasn't a loose call in this hand. Hero has 5.5 clean outs on the flop getting 9.5:1 he has 10/12 outs on the turn getting 6.25:1. As far as pre flop goes if you don't feel like AJs is enough to defend your blinds against an open raise your giving money away.