Passing top pair, good kicker on Party - is it possible?

[Big Dave D]

Normally top pair, good kicker is a hand you take to the showdown in Party madness, imho, unless huge action. Here I passed to one check raise (no knowledge of foes):

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $15.
UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.66 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.33 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (10.33 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 11.33 BB

My thoughts at the time were that check raising two players who had already invested one bet was a lot stronger, and less likely to signify a draw, than just check raising me alone. But the odds were probably there if hes hit two pair to call to see the river. But passing top pair good kicker sure felt strange. Any thoughts or comments?

[steveyz]

I don't think I have this fold in me at Party 15/30 against an unknown. Although there's not that much you can beat except AT/A8/etc. A7s and A9s seem likely here. But this assume that UTG isn't a lag, and sometimes that's not a good assumption. I don't know. If the tables have been getting tighter post flop like some of the regulars have suggested, it's probably a good laydown.

[nykenny]

good fold..

call would be ok too.

turn fold would be slightly better, IMO

the pot is pretty big so call turn and river is ok too...

but i vote turn fold as the best move, river fold as 2nd best, and river call as third best.

[Clarkmeister]

"but i vote turn fold as the best move"

Reraise is a far better option than fold. Are you serious? Fold the turn? I mean, I'm like dumbfounded. That's got to be suicide in those games, especially in a pot that big.


This is at Party
You have top pair with big stick
This means do not fold

[Big Dave D]

I'm not sure whether it was you or Dynasty that said you dont make money at limit holdem by making big passes on the river. As a pot limit and mostly Omaha convertee, this has been a great lesson to learn from and live by, and one that seems even more appropriate on Party where madness so often prevails.

However the check raise on the turn struck me quite hard. It seems either a strong play by a strong player or a clueless play by a clueless player, after all he was against two players who had already invested one bet this round and being Party, were unlikely to fold.

I like the idea of three-betting to get a free showdown, it did cross my mind but the check raise move multiway just froze my action.

Having called the turn are you saying that a river call is compulsory? As I have said, normally I would just call down, and headsup I would absolutely do so, but I had fixed in my mind that I was beat, and didnt improve and so 12:1, with a caller behind me, still wasnt enough. I'm now thinking that it probably was.

DD

[mike l.]

"That's got to be suicide in those games, especially in a pot that big."

again limited hours but my experience was that when they raised on the turn they had it. i read on here all the time about how people are always making moves on party and the best thing to do it call, call, call w/ top pair, but i just did not experience that at all. this raise on the turn means two pair minimum a great deal of the time and it's rarely a move, that's what i saw happening online.

[rigoletto]

[ QUOTE ]
"That's got to be suicide in those games, especially in a pot that big."

again limited hours but my experience was that when they raised on the turn they had it. i read on here all the time about how people are always making moves on party and the best thing to do it call, call, call w/ top pair, but i just did not experience that at all. this raise on the turn means two pair minimum a great deal of the time and it's rarely a move, that's what i saw happening online.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. It seems to me that Party 15/30 has been underrated and and also judged to uniformly on this board. There are usually 10-15 games going on and most of those are somewhat tight with only a couple of fish. Against some opponents I 3-bet here (I agree with Clark that this is superior to calling) but against unknowns I fold on the turn.

[Turning Stone Pro]

I agree with rigoletto. The full 10 handed 15-30 games ( i counted 40 of them Sat. night) are not as easy as perhaps we've (i.e. myself) have led people to believe.

If I log on after a miserable day of work and go into "grudge mode" (can't remember where I heard this phrase but it fits), I do terrible. In other words, if I try to be overly aggressive and bully people, it goes south (just like in the B &amp; M rooms).

There are many very good players on the site, who deserve respect and will defeat good players who are having a bad night or who underestimate the competition.

Joe

[Turning Stone Pro]

who'da thunk it?

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
This is at Party
You have top pair with big stick
This means do not fold

[/ QUOTE ]

It took me a while on Party 15/30 to figure this out. It was a very hard adjustment to make, because it's so counterintuitive to everything I learned playing in live games.

It also took me awhile to adjust to the flop and turn play that you can expect 100% of the time as a preflop raiser on a ragged board:

check-bet-call
check-bet-raise