Post Reads!!!!!!

[kiddj]

I was just skimming through recent hand posts and it's getting a little annoying. I counted 11 out of the last 14 hand posts had no reads listed what so ever. If you are playing hands, particularly marginal ones in tricky situations, this information is vital!

"I just sat down", doesn't count. "Table was kind of laggy", is only slightly better. If you don't know how to find or interpret this information about the other players, you need to learn. Even something like VPIP, PFR, or post flop aggression on a player will help.

I'm not pointing this out just to make the hand posts more complete. Reads are valuable to your play and will improve your win rate.

[Buckmulligan]

I'm more particular about hands with no particular questions than I am about ones with no particular reads. I never find these reads reliable anyway, when people just say "he was LA, TA, etc." The only ones I take seriously are the ones that describe betting patterns in recent hands, and the hands that were shown down.

[kiddj]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm more particular about hands with no particular questions than I am about ones with no particular reads. I never find these reads reliable anyway, when people just say "he was LA, TA, etc." The only ones I take seriously are the ones that describe betting patterns in recent hands, and the hands that were shown down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely. Betting patterns and recent hands shown down would be very helpful. My concern is that people aren't getting reads at all, or playing completely by intuition.

I often sit down at a table with complete unknowns. I do my best to get reads on their play and note their shown hands. After I get enough hands to let PT look at, I am off a lot of times on my assessment of their tightness or aggressiveness. It just seems strange that a good portion of posted hands are "just sat down" hands. If I have one of these, I wait until I have some PT stats on the players and replay/review the hand later with reads (both mine and PT).

[thesharpie]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree completely. Betting patterns and recent hands shown down would be very helpful. My concern is that people aren't getting reads at all, or playing completely by intuition.

I often sit down at a table with complete unknowns. I do my best to get reads on their play and note their shown hands. After I get enough hands to let PT look at, I am off a lot of times on my assessment of their tightness or aggressiveness. It just seems strange that a good portion of posted hands are "just sat down" hands. If I have one of these, I wait until I have some PT stats on the players and replay/review the hand later with reads (both mine and PT).

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is we might've played the hand differently if we looked at his stats 100 hands later, and you could get given wrong advice to take against an unknown (which he was when you played against him if you just sat down).

For instance you find out your opponent is a maniac many hands later and post the read and everyone tells you to call down with ace high, when you played the hand he was an unknown to you and you probably shouldn't take this line against an unknown.

Reads are helpful, but I think learning default plays against unknowns are helpful too.

[MrWookie47]

Reads help, sure. No one is denying that. However, people do, you know, "just sit down" at tables, and I hope that they are trying to play their best poker during their first 30 hands at that table while trying to develop reads. No reads hands helpful for learning default lines and typical plays. On the other hand, cut and pasting from the hand converter just shows laziness.

[benkath1]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't know how to find or interpret this information about the other players, you need to learn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am as guilty as anyone about not posting reads. I think the problem for me, as most newb's (i hope), is:

1. Getting the reads. I use PT and GT+, I see their stats, but being relatively new to the whole stat read, I don't really know what they mean, or how many hands I need to validate them. If I only have 100 hands on a guy, couldn't he be running fairly good for 100 hands?

2. Using the reads. So he's a TAP, TAA, LAP. Some of them I get, but some of them I just don't know. The obvious one are easy, but how many plays are 'read dependant'?

So I'm getting the reads, I guess what I'm asking is how to interpret them. This has been in the back of my mind for a while and maybe I should post a thread about it.

If anybody knows any good links on this I would appreciate it.

Ben

[kiddj]

[ QUOTE ]

2. Using the reads. So he's a TAP, TAA, LAP. Some of them I get, but some of them I just don't know. The obvious one are easy, but how many plays are 'read dependant'?

So I'm getting the reads, I guess what I'm asking is how to interpret them. This has been in the back of my mind for a while and maybe I should post a thread about it.

If anybody knows any good links on this I would appreciate it.

Ben

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I am in the early stages of the interpretation as well. Some of the basics are VPIP, PFR, aggression. Some of the questions you need to ask are: "His VPIP is X, what hands can I put him on PF?", or "His PFR is X%, he just raised, what hands can I put him on now?", or "His post flop aggression is X, what type of hands will he bet/raise on the flop/turn/river?". Also, note specific hands shown down, especially if it's suspicious (like no odds/chasing or bad starting hands).

Some extreme examples: I know players with 0% PFR, (or very close to it). If this person raises PF, I may just get out with my less profitable starting hands. If someone's VPIP is close to 100%, I can put him on any hand PF. If someone shows down a high card bluff attempt twice in an orbit, I note it and consider calling him down (or raising) with bottom pair next time we're HU. The stats are many times just the basis for the read, but combined with experience and player notes, your read gets more reliable and useful.

[HollywoodDB]

I agree, and am guilty of the afformentioned. I think I am "the table was kinda laggy" guy. I am working on more precise reads and I don't have playerview. But for now, I'm doing the best I can.

Dutily noted.

[reubenf]

Reads make hands easier to play. So there are fewer questions about hands with reads.

Plus, it's possible to beat the micros without using reads at all. When I feel like concentrating, I play 2/4 with playerview open and I watch betting patterns. But typically I'm doing something else, and I play a few tables of 1/2 or .5/1 without using any reads at all. At some point, maybe I'll be able to play 2/4 without reads and 3/6 when I have time to concentrate.

[wireMan]

Am I the only person here that hasn't invested in PT? Just really started playing back in March with nickels and dimes. Just moved up to 0.25/0.50, but if I invest in PT my account won't have the 300BB for 0.25/0.50 and grinding it out on 0.05/0.10 was horrible. My goal is to get PT by the end of next week. I've bought and read SSHE and have been reading this forum for weeks.
Does everyone keep copious notes on the players at the table? I play at Stars and don't do much with the notes, because it never seems like enough time to type information in.