$11 Rebuy.How much at first break would make the addon not worthwhile?

[Toddy]

Just a thought on this. Obviously if you have a huge bankroll you might as well spend the extra $10 no matter what. Lately at first break I've had between 6-15K which makes the add-on very important (15-33% more chips), but is there a number that would make it not really worth the money? Is there a point to spend an extra $10 to make your stack go from 41-43k for example?

[Exitonly]

this has been discussed ad-nauseum.

If you have what the average stack will be, when ITM, would be a good guess of when to not add-on. (Rough estimate would be 60k for the 10:15 rebuy)

That's according to Fossilman.

[betgo]

If you have a big stack, you want the cheap extra chips more. You have a shot at $15K. Why save on $10?

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
you want the cheap extra chips more

[/ QUOTE ]

well that's not right.. they're less and less important the bigger your stack.

Me adding 66% to my stack is way more helpful than adding say 10%

[Toddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you want the cheap extra chips more

[/ QUOTE ]

well that's not right.. they're less and less important the bigger your stack.

Me adding 66% to my stack is way more helpful than adding say 10%

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya this is exactly what i meant. If for instance you hit a bunch of double ups and got to 90K chips on first break I'd probably still do the add on, but it probably would not be the correct play. You follow Exitonly, right?

[Exitonly]

Did you see my first response? it covered that, and it said at what point it would become Neutrarl EV.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you want the cheap extra chips more




[/ QUOTE ]

well that's not right.. they're less and less important the bigger your stack.

Me adding 66% to my stack is way more helpful than adding say 10%


[/ QUOTE ]

Sklansky agress with you, but you are both wrong. Yeh the chips make more difference to you with a shorter stack. However, the real money is at the final table. Adding on to a big stack gives you a lot more than $10 in expected win increase.

[Exitonly]

Uh.. back that up with some math, because it doesnt make any sense.

edit: Basically you're telling me you'll have a higher EV w/ a 40k stack than a 5k one..

Thanks.

Your EV will increase more with an increase from 3k to 5k, than it will from 40k to 42k.

Without a doubt, please, try and prove me wrong.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
Uh.. back that up with some math, because it doesnt make any sense.

edit: Basically you're telling me you'll have a higher EV w/ a 40k stack than a 5k one..

Thanks.

Your EV will increase more with an increase from 3k to 5k, than it will from 40k to 42k.

Without a doubt, please, try and prove me wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will try to prove you wrong. I don't know how to use mathematical formulas to prove you wrong, but then I doubt that you could use mathematical formulas to prove your case. I'll try a logical approach.

#1: There are some chip counts in which it is NOT +EV to spend the extra ten dollars to get another 2000 chips.

For example, let's say that you are left with 1 chip because you lost most of your chips on the last hand of the rebuy period. You could spend another $10 to have 2001 chips. However, over the long run, you will probably lose more than you would gain. So you would be better off just playing with your one chip (or shutting off your computer and going to bed).

#2: There is a point where it is basically even money as to whether you spend the extra $10 during the add-on period. This is just logical. If it is -EV to spend the $10 when you have 1 chip, and +EV to spend the $10 when you have 10,000 chips, then somewhere between 1 chip and 10,000 chips is a point where it doesn't much matter, EV-wise, as to whether you spend the extra $10 or not.

#3: Maybe that point where it doesn't much matter, EV-wise, as to whether you spend the extra $10 is around 3000 chips. Hell, it could even be -EV to spend the $10 when the rest of the field is so far ahead of you. Now, personal experience and antecdotes suggest that it can be worth it to spend the extra $10 when you have 3000 chips. But personal experience doesn't cut it. We tend to remember unique events, such as winning a substantial amount of money when we only had 5000 chips after the add-on period; we tend to forget common events, such as finishing OTM when we only had 5000 chips after the add-on period.

At any rate, even if it is +EV to spend the $10 during the add-on period when you have 3000 chips, it's probably not worth that much. I would say that you would probably be better off, EV-wise, in spending that $10 on a $10 tournament, rather than this tournament.

#4: If you are anywhere near the top ten after the add-on period, you have a decent chance of making the final table.

#5: Each jump in the standings at the final table can make a huge difference in the amount of money won.

#6: 2000 chips at the end of the add-on period could easily be worth 8000 - 16000 chips by the time you get to the final table, if you double up 3 or 4 times before you get to the final table.

#7: 8000 extra chips at the final table can easily make the difference between, say, 3rd and 4th, or 9th and 7th place, or whatever.

So I think it's very possible that adding on when you have 3000 chips will make very little difference, money-wise, over the long run, and that adding on when you are in the top ten after the add-on period could make a huge difference, money-wise, over the long run.

[Toddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you want the cheap extra chips more




[/ QUOTE ]

well that's not right.. they're less and less important the bigger your stack.

Me adding 66% to my stack is way more helpful than adding say 10%


[/ QUOTE ]

Sklansky agress with you, but you are both wrong. Yeh the chips make more difference to you with a shorter stack. However, the real money is at the final table. Adding on to a big stack gives you a lot more than $10 in expected win increase.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously it's better to have more chips. Thats not the arguement. Say for example you play 1 rebuy. SO with $21 you got 90,000 chips. For the extra $10 you're getting 2,000 chips. So you're spending 33% additional money to get about 2% more chips.