|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Someone PLEASE straighten me out...
All players are new to me. 1 limper and I raise from the cutoff with KK. Button cold-calls, blinds folds and limper calls.
The flop is J72r. Limper bets, I raise, button calls two-cold, limper calls. Turn is T. Limper checks, I bet, button raises, limper calls two-cold, I call. River is 5 putting up a backdoor flush. Limper bets his last $1 all-in. I call and now button completes it to a full bet. Will I have the best hand often enough to call? And here's why I suck.. I just can't grasp the way these guys online think. I called the turn hoping to have outs against two-pair (even though there was a straight on board). On the river, I wasn't too concerned about a flush, but it's out there and possible. I was mostly concnerned about two-pair. I thought it should be obvious that I must have at LEAST a jack!!... And if I have a jack, it's at least a GOOD jack. So how can someone "value" bet the river behind me with a worse hand? Well, I folded and they both chopped it up with QJ. Is there any hope for me online? I really don't think so, because I can't get myself to think right. I can see raising the turn with his QJ. He's going to pay me off anyway, so might as well raise. But it's the follow through bet on the river that gets me every time. It seems to me to be an incredibly stupid bet, but it's a brilliant bet against me, because it becomes a two-way bet. I both pay off AND fold the winner too often. I'm convinced this is why I can do no better than mediocre online. What do I have to change in my thinking? Any tips? |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Someone PLEASE straighten me out...
Don't try to look for places to make good laydowns, look for places to make good raises. Be a calling station on the later streets, because on Party Poker, everyone loves to bluff.
-rory |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Someone PLEASE straighten me out...
I agree with the previous comment... normally. I think that your other hand where you laid down the straight was correct. I can't believe that there was no AJ or flush. Here though, you have to make this call. You have to realize that the turn raise wasn't a bluff... he wasn't trying to move you off a better hand; that player simply believed that top pair third kicker was good against your AK or medium pair. Don't lay down an overpair for 9/10s of a bet on party with an all-in and a huge pot otherwise HU.
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Someone PLEASE straighten me out...
But how can he think AK or an underpair will pay him off here? In other words, a bet here should be -EV (and if I wasn't an IDIOT it would've been!!!). I either don't call and if I do, he's beat.. That's the way it should've went down.... If I didn't SUCK!@!!!!!!
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Someone PLEASE straighten me out...
wait, think of what you just said here.
"how can he think AK or an underpair will pay him off here?" Do you really think that a typical player thinks the way you do? They don't. They don't think of EV, they don't think about anything except for their hand. Hence he is playing QJo preflop because those are 2 BIG CARDS and he can make a straight!!! |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Someone PLEASE straighten me out...
You're giving too much credit to your opponent. Also, I've seen AK and smaller pairs call down in this situation before.
|
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Someone PLEASE straighten me out...
[ QUOTE ]
But how can he think... [/ QUOTE ] Who cares? If you're consistently losing money by making folds like this, it should occur to you that 1 in 14 times someone is going to overplay their hand and your kings are going to be good. You might try moving way down in limits, to 3-6 or so, to get a feel for how people can showdown any 2 at any time. Once you realize the same is possible in 15-30, you might have better results. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Someone PLEASE straighten me out...
I agree with the calling station comment.
Quite often I win big pots because I have a decent enough hand and refuse to believe the agression in front of me. Sometimes you have to grit your teeth and throw the chips in. I got checkraised yesterday holding AKo no hearts in EP. I think this was 8/16 but it may have been 5/10. Preflop UTG limps, I raise, 2 or 3 callers back to UTG. A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] flop, limped round. Turn brought 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I was suddenly checkraised by UTG. Down to 3 players. I called and a non-heart K hit the river. UTG bets, I raised, final other folds, UTG called. I was way good with AK two pair against his AQ.... but I had thought about folding at the turn. Folding the winner a few times (with a big pot) is the pain that taught me to call down more often with a feasible hand given the action/players. SSHE says that calling down is a less costly mistake than folding the winner, and it's right. Still hurts when I do fold the winner tho [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Someone PLEASE straighten me out...
This was an awful laydown. You're getting almost 14:1 on the river and you're closing the action. My opponent would actually have to lay his cards face-up on the table for me to fold at this point. I understand why you felt your KK was beaten but you have to call here unless the button is 200 proof rock with no trace of trickiness.
SpaceAce |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Someone PLEASE straighten me out...
you're making silly folds.
Stop making those open raises from the cutoff with K8s and use that money to make calls like this on the river. I used to make silly folds. Now I coun't how much money I would lose when I make these silly folds and I make silly folds -No More-. This is what I do. I call. Ohh you win.... Ok nice hand. I call. Ohh.... you tried to buy it.... I almost folded, thank goodness I called. |
|
|