$200 in PP, now what?

[@bsolute_luck]

okay i've taken the plunge: put $200 in PP with the GRANNY code. now what?
i'm pretty new, have been on 2+2 for almost 2 mo., been playing play $$ for practice (and crushing now), and have read SSH (and reading it again and again...rinse repeat).

i thought i'd start at the .25/.5 tables because i'm a little nervous and want to make sure i have a strong poker foundation. but everyone at the table has like $10 tops. do i sit at the table with $100/$200/less?

also PP keeps stats of your game. should i still get PokerTracker? if so, where?

my final question is: i really struggle to count pot odds and outs in the time allowed. how can i improve on this skill? thanks for the help.

[AncientPC]

Just sit down with $20 at .25/.50. You don't need to sit down with that much and you don't want to attract attention.

Yes, get it at www.pokertracker.com.

As for counting outs and odds, just play one table and count the outs and odds needed for a draw even if you're not in a hand. It will soon become second nature once you realise that a lot of the same numbers are used over and over.

[@bsolute_luck]

thanks. i was going to start a new thread about what happened at my first night of playing for real $$, but i hate starting new threads. so this is my "tale of a newb":

i played about 80 hands at Paradise last night at the .25/.5 tables with $20. i was nervous at first, but after seeing how people played and what they played with, it was pretty much the same as practicing with fake $$ for the most part.

i ended up winning $12, so i was happy. using a lot of what i learned in SSH and on these boards, i was able to bluff/push off a lot of people for little/medium pots and draw people into making a marginal hand as profitable as i could.

it was surprisingly tight last night. while people would generally play with crap, there averaged only 3-4 people seeing the flop, which i thought was odd for these stakes.

i got the hands to convert from my Yahoo email message into Poker Tracker, but obviously 80 isn't even close to worth anything. but i'll look through my hands later to see if there were any questions regarding my play.

overall, it was fun. kinda boring with not a lot of people seeing the flop. i played 3 different tables throughout the night, and they all were the same. the average % of ppl seeing the flop was 50. but i'm in the black, so i'm exciting for my winnings.

[Pov]

The following are some recommendations I wish someone would have given me when I started out. Unfortunately I hadn't started reading 2 + 2 yet.


[ QUOTE ]
i ended up winning $12, so i was happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't focus on whether you won or lost. Did you play well?

[ QUOTE ]
using a lot of what i learned in SSH and on these boards, i was able to bluff/push off a lot of people for little/medium pots and draw people into making a marginal hand as profitable as i could.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to be VERY careful trying things like this until you are an experienced player. OUtright bluffing at the low limits is rarely correct. Wait for the opportunity to semi-bluff.

[ QUOTE ]
it was surprisingly tight last night. while people would generally play with crap, there averaged only 3-4 people seeing the flop, which i thought was odd for these stakes . . . kinda boring with not a lot of people seeing the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you move up to limits as low as $2/$4 this will actually be pretty much an average game. I know you're just starting out, but start working on your patience now.

[ QUOTE ]
but i'm in the black, so i'm exciting for my winnings.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad your first session was a winner. However, as mentioned above, don't get too wrapped up in whether you happened to finish up or down in a particular session. Be careful to separate your results from your quality of play. Sometimes you will play like crap and win and sometimes you will play flawlessly and lose. It's very difficult to grasp this until you have a lot of experience. I'm not saying not to celebrate your win - you should be proud - but the point is to never settle for how you did. Could you have won more on the hands you won? Could you have lost less on the hands you lost? What did you learn about your opponents? Only player who ask themselves these questions on a regular basis will improve and take on the higher limits.

Your next step is to repeat your first performance many dozens of times. You correctly stated that 80 hands doesn't mean much. Neither does 800. Put in a few thousand hands and see if you're trending upward. Even then your results may not be particularly indicative of your skill, but that's when your win rate will start to materialize and you'll start to get a good idea of whether you're actually winning. The more important part is to just keep improving your skills regardless of short term results.

[@bsolute_luck]

i really appreciate the constructive criticism. overall, while i'm happy i won #1: i realize i have played next to no hands #2: i don't think i'm a great or even good player just because i won some pennies at .25/.5 stakes #3: know i have a lot to improve on.

but i am happy because i think, for the most part, i played pretty solid for a beginner and i should be happy to be in the positive- even if i played well and lost, i'd be upset.

[ QUOTE ]
You need to be VERY careful trying things like this until you are an experienced player. OUtright bluffing at the low limits is rarely correct. Wait for the opportunity to semi-bluff.

[/ QUOTE ] thanks for the tip. i should be careful, and i think for the most part i didn't OUTright bluff as it was generally only in the blind positions when folded to me or one limper. but i will keep my eyes open for developing bad habits/overconfidence.

[ QUOTE ]
When you move up to limits as low as $2/$4 this will actually be pretty much an average game. I know you're just starting out, but start working on your patience now.

[/ QUOTE ] yeah, patience is definitely an area i have to work on. i only played around 25% of the hands, which i believe is around the suggested amount (i wasn't shooting for this %, it just happens that i work very hard on my PRF play at this early stage of play). i was just surprised actually because i didn't think .25/.5 would have so few flop viewers.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying not to celebrate your win - you should be proud - but the point is to never settle for how you did. Could you have won more on the hands you won? Could you have lost less on the hands you lost? What did you learn about your opponents? Only player who ask themselves these questions on a regular basis will improve and take on the higher limits.

[/ QUOTE ] this is great. i'm actually happy you said this because i thought i was studying too much and overly concerned that i didn't play well, but that's what i'm going through right now. sure i won say 26BB, but could i have had 30BB? did i misread on this hand? i actually have a lot of questions about my play, but the Bison Converter link seems to be messed up, so i'm stuck for now. i have a pad of paper next to the computer where i constantly take notes.

anyway, thanks for the help/suggestions/guidance. it is much appreciated. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
Just sit down with $20 at .25/.50.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like sitting down with this much. I like to sit with 24 big bets, so I sit with $12 at Stars .25/.50

[@bsolute_luck]

well regardless whether i sit with $12 or $20, the results seem to be the same: i lose. i sat with $20 at .25/.5 (i lowered to hopefully get some confidence). Such was not the case.

i not only see monsters under the bed, i've talked to them, had lunch with them, and lost all my $ to them. i'd say at this point, while i'm still studying, i hate poker. i play %25 of my hands, watch people with crap win pots, and when i get a hand it either doesn't get any help from flop, turn, river, it gets stomped by a monster, or merely wins the blinds to a folded table.

i'm now down 70BB and totally confused. i'm going back through my hands and posting them as i can (aparently, i can only post 1 hand per 4 hours or something), but i don't think i made any major mistakes. very frustrated at this point. i think i'm gonna have to take a break or i'm just going to play out of frustration and not think about the hands.

[Dead]

This game is very beatable. I made 20 bucks in 30 minutes at Stars .25/.50 last night.

Maybe you're just having a bad run. If you're playing correctly then that's all tht matters. Are you playing correctly?

[@bsolute_luck]

[ QUOTE ]
This game is very beatable. I made 20 bucks in 30 minutes at Stars .25/.50 last night.

Maybe you're just having a bad run. If you're playing correctly then that's all tht matters. Are you playing correctly?

[/ QUOTE ]

hahah, i guess that's the question eh? part of it, yes, i did have a bad run and i lost more chips on those runs than suggested. i've posted some hands in the micro forum and have learned a leak i have is not willing to letting strong hands when obviously beat.

i lost with QQ twice, my suited cards never even flop a backdoor draw, my 2 AKs never paired. but i'm taking my time. i think it would be more valuable for me to break from playing a day or so to gather my head.

i have records of my past 300 hands i'm going very carefully back over to examine my play. i've found a number of helpful tweaks and improvements. so i am still moving forward. two steps forward, 1 step back right?

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
i play %25 of my hands, watch people with crap win pots, and when i get a hand it either doesn't get any help from flop, turn, river, it gets stomped by a monster, or merely wins the blinds to a folded table.

[/ QUOTE ]
Far be it for me to give suggestions, considering I'm relatively new to the poker world compared to some other 2+2ers, but remember, limit hold-em is a game of value bets, not trapping. You don't have the two mixed up, you just don't seem to be pumping enough value out of the fish. I'm not saying you're playing incorrectly, but it sounds as if to me you're calling too much post-flop, and not matching your pre-flop aggression in order to make the other players pay.

Of course, it could just be a cold deck. But since you have SSH, you might as well read it while you take your break from poker, especially the parts on overcards, betting for value on the river, and protecting your hand. And as always, keep an eye on pot odds and pot equity.

Don't get discouraged!