Raising preflop w/ 99

[Thebram]

While asking a co-worker if he thought this laydown was correct, I was surprised when his first comment was, "Preflop raise with 9's??? Runs counter to almost everything I've read....."

My argument is, I probably have the best hand, but its vulnerable, I'd like to clear out some trash. Also, if I limped, I'd call a raise, so why not take control off the bat?

His argument was, "You may have the best hand pre-flop, but the odds are that you probably won't have it by the river. The odds of a 10, jack, queen, king, or ace hitting on the flop are huge. And then what?" And also added, " If you're holding any pockets, odds are you have the best hand preflop. But why doesn't anyone recommend raising preflop with any pockets less than JJ when you're UTG?"

So who is righter?


This was a 6-max $0.25/$0.50 UB table. It was pretty loose, but I had only shown down good hands when I played aggressively to this point.

Hero is UTG with [9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]

Pre-flop: (6 players)
Hero raises to $.50. MP folds. CO calls. Button calls. SB folds. BB calls.

Flop (board: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]): (4 players)
BB bets $.25. Hero folds. CO calls. Button calls.

[Jaran]

UTG, I limp. If I'm late MP or late position w/o any other raisers, then I raise.

-Jaran

[cardcounter0]

UTG, I raise. Try to drive some of the A/rag K/rag riff-raff out.
Middle Position. I raise.
Late Position. I raise.
Hmmm... I think I see a pattern.

"You may have the best hand pre-flop, but the odds are that you probably won't have it by the river."

What wonderful logic! I think this is true for almost every hand. Although it is hard to say who is "righter" since "righter" is not an acutal english word.

[tech]

Neither is "acutal." [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Peter Harris]

lol! [not an english idiom either]

back on thread, i limp with 99. given a statistic cited to me before that "70% of the time an overcard falls against JJ" (that i have been too ignorant to validate), 99 is a set OR overpair play to me.

as a result, i will only openraise with 99 in LMP or limp along hoping for a 9 or undercards. i would like to see if i am giving up a lot of equity here.

Pete H.

[Clarkmeister]

"given a statistic cited to me before that "70% of the time an overcard falls against JJ""

This is flat-out wrong. It is a shade over 50%. The important thing is that JJ flops as an overpair or with a set roughly 60% of the time. Compare that to AK flopping a pair roughly 33% of the time. No wonder JJ's EV is so much higher than AK's at pokerroom.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
So who is righter?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, who is lefter?

[sublime]

UTG-At a tight(er) table? Sure every now and then

CO/Button- Hells yeah [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[cjromero]

I don't like raising with 99 UTG or in EP at any Party micro table. You aren't going to get the guys playing Ax, Kx, or any two overcards to fold. And once that A, K, or overcard comes on the flop, you aren't getting them to fold.

I will open raise with 99 in LP or sometimes raise one limper if the table is playing tight.

Can someone explain to me the value of raising 99 in EP at a Party micro table?

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like raising with 99 UTG or in EP at any Party micro table. You aren't going to get the guys playing Ax, Kx,

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like a good argument for raising.