|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Did I chicken out with my flush draw on the turn?
I think I played this hand well up to the turn. When the board paired, I got gun shy. Did I just flat out wuss out, or can an argument be made for calling here?
This is my second post tonight regarding flush draw flops. I am still trying to figure out how to maximize the wins with these hands. Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls. Flop: (8.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls. Turn: (12.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls. River: (16.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls. Final Pot: 22.25 BB |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Did I chicken out with my flush draw on the turn?
UTG+1 could have flopped the str8 or be pushing the 2nd nut flush. I think either way he'd be looking to drive out anyone else that's drawing to a better hand.
I'd raise the turn to see where I stand. With two others happily cold-calling along, you're getting the equity. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Did I chicken out with my flush draw on the turn?
What is your read on the preflop raiser? Depending on this read I think cold-calling is the worst option. Reraise or fold.
Since you made it to the flop, why are you raising it? Why would you raise the turn? You played the turn and river well but misplayed preflop and flop in my opinion - except the flop cap is good. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Did I chicken out with my flush draw on the turn?
*grunch*
I think I call here. Villain has something he likes a LOT on a Queen-high board. I'm thinking QQ, AA, or KK. Of course, if he has QQ you're boned no matter what, and even if he doesn't, his level of aggression suggests that if you raise, it's coming back 3 to you. Right now you're getting 13 to 1 to call. 6.5:1 on a raise, and if you get 3-bet it'll be what, 7:1? You've got 9 outs to the flush, but villain is definitely playing like he's got the makings of a full house, so you can't count them all... I don't like 3-betting this turn. Maybe I'm too passive. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Did I chicken out with my flush draw on the turn?
Raising this turn would be bad on several levels.
The first flop raise is also no good. Look at the action. Why are you trying to isolate yourself against what is probably a much better hand, while driving out potential second-best-hand-makers? If you were on the button with these guys inbetween you and the bettor, that's when you raise. Pre-flop is also a concern. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Did I chicken out with my flush draw on the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
The first flop raise is also no good. Look at the action. Why are you trying to isolate yourself against what is probably a much better hand, while driving out potential second-best-hand-makers? If you were on the button with these guys inbetween you and the bettor, that's when you raise. [/ QUOTE ] I think the OP would be well advised to try and soak in the concepts of relative position and how to apply it. There is the argument that Hero could get a free card by raising here, but I think calling the initial bet is better. It's better to take advantage of the equity edge by calling this and not facing potential callers with 2 bets than going for a free card you are likely not to get anyhow. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Did I chicken out with my flush draw on the turn?
anyone else muck this PF?
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Did I chicken out with my flush draw on the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
anyone else muck this PF? [/ QUOTE ] not I EDIT: nm I was thinkin 6-max, where I raise it up all day long |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Did I chicken out with my flush draw on the turn?
*Grunch*
I would have been tempted to fold this preflop, at a guess the raiser either has you dominated, or has a high pair. Anyway, on the flop, I would have been tempted to just call, a raise is possibly +ev, but only if everybody (as in this case) comes along for the ride. Rest is fine, UTG+1 has to show you QQ or JJ. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Did I chicken out with my flush draw on the turn?
The pf play is not default. You need to justify it based on the players already in the hand and the likely actions behind you. I most likely fold.
Just call the flop lead. If the pot ends up raised and 3+ way you can think about pumping your draw for value. Raising doesn't make it more likely that you're going to win, and though you might get calls anyway given the coordinated flop there's no point risking it. Raising the turn would be stupid. UTG+1 has taken all you've served up on a coordinated board and asked for more. The cost of calling the turn will be at least partially compensated by overcalls so you certainly don't want to knock them out and/or make it more expensive for you. You have nothing to protect and no equity edge to push. Call good sir or madam. Way to make your hand on the river. |
|
|