Turn Line

GTSamIAm · #1 08-03-2005, 09:30 PM

Blinds are very fishy. I've been with them for a while. Loose passive. The other is an unknown, just sat down. No reason to believe he's any good yet. Should I have bet the turn? Against fish, should I wait for a good river and push a bigger edge? Or should I push my turn edge?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB completes, BB raises, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

River: (5 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

istewart · #2 08-03-2005, 09:34 PM

Yes I would bet the turn. And probably the river depending on the card/players. This looks like a board that 1/2 passives call with ace-high and bottom pair enough for it to be for value.

GTSamIAm · #3 08-03-2005, 09:36 PM

But if I bet the turn, will they call the river bet with weak hands?

istewart · #4 08-03-2005, 09:39 PM

Tough to say, but I think they will. It's pretty clear that nobody has a ten, and also I think a safe assumption that nobody has a seven either. But there are a few straight draws that you'll be able to pry some value out of with a bet here, so do so.

GTSamIAm · #5 08-03-2005, 09:43 PM

Don't you agree I'm likely calling or checking the river here? There are many, many cards that can come to disappoint me.

istewart · #6 08-03-2005, 09:47 PM

Depends on the card, like I said. Sure, something like the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] you won't really be thrilled with betting, but that ten IMO is a card worth a value bet. But with your position you have the upper hand in this decision, as you see.

Aaron W. · #7 08-03-2005, 09:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But if I bet the turn, will they call the river bet with weak hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

Will it matter? You've already collected money from them on the turn. If they call a second time, it's icing on the cake.

madscratch · #8 08-04-2005, 09:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But if I bet the turn, will they call the river bet with weak hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

Will it matter? You've already collected money from them on the turn. If they call a second time, it's icing on the cake.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is an excellent point. I was just about to advocate checking the turn until I read this, so thanks, Aaron.

I think you're ahead on the turn, so even though there are many bad cards that come on the river, getting a Ax, KJ, etc to fold to your bet now is great. And if they call your bet that's not too bad either.

GTSamIAm · #9 08-03-2005, 09:51 PM

Again, I'm with the same fish. So I guess that's an argument for betting. They routinely limp bad hands, so the board is not overly relevant. How does that section apply to this hand or the previous hand if at all? They are referring to hands with very few redraw outs on the flop, i.e. pp's.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 4 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks.

River: (2.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 2.50 BB

Aaron W. · #10 08-03-2005, 11:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Again, I'm with the same fish. So I guess that's an argument for betting. They routinely limp bad hands, so the board is not overly relevant. How does that section apply to this hand or the previous hand if at all? They are referring to hands with very few redraw outs on the flop, i.e. pp's.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 4 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks.

River: (2.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 2.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Since they are so passive, bet the turn. If you get raised, it's an easy muck. If they call, you're probably getting value out of it more times than you're getting beat up by a quiet flush.