VPIP < 20 ?

[NoTalent]

My current VPIP is around 22 for about 5k hands at 2/4 full ring (I know, I know small sample size).

Many of the winning players in my PT database have VPIP &lt; 20 (some even as low as 15). By following Kreiger's advice in Holdem Excellence you would likely have around 25 using his chart.

What hands should I throw away? I've noticed that ATo and KJo are losing for me right now. Any advice from the TAG players?

Regards,
NoTalent

[BottlesOf]

1. 5K hands is literally nothing.

2. Your VPIP should probably be a little lower so forget about 25.

3. Don't obsess about what hands you're winning with/not winning with (see no. 1)

4. Get SSH

[ThrillFactor]

You must have above average post-flop skills to play ATo and KJo from early or mid-position profitably. I don't, so I'll only play ATo from late-mid position or after against at most one limper. Others here could probably play it more, but not me. KJo I only play from CO or CO-1 if folded to me. I'll play it from the button vs. a couple of limpers, but I'm ready to release against any real aggression.

My V$IP numbers after a whole boat-load of hands are:

.5/1 19.xx%
1/2 18.xx%
2/4 17.xx%

I'm killing all three levels.

[doughhater]

This is the second thread that I've seen regarding VPIP, and both were regarding a 20% number. I personally have played about 35k hands working up from .5/1 through 1/2 and my figure is just above %13. I can't imagine that playing more hands than this could add any profitability, especailly when multi-tabling. There just isn't enough information for you to make accurate post flop decisions with marginal hands. Who knows, maybe I'm missing out here, but I know that I'm making plenty of money like this, so I plan on continuing in this fashion.

[Yeknom58]

20% is likey slighty high for anyone with average postflop skills to make money but 13% for micro limit limp fest tables is way too tight. I'm not an expert but I think a good guess for the sweet spot is likely around 16-19

[ThrillFactor]

[ QUOTE ]
20% is likey slighty high for anyone with average postflop skills to make money but 13% for micro limit limp fest tables is way too tight. I'm not an expert but I think a good guess for the sweet spot is likely around 16-19

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed.

[BottlesOf]

enh, i'd bump to 17-20, b/c a) I like to be annoying and b) I think it's a bit more accurate for micro games.

Somewhat related: I'm about 15 for 5/10 and am working on loosening up a bit b/c I think I should be around 16/17/18.

[Malcom Reynolds]

In a limp fest there are many hands that can be played profitably. Suited connectors and pocket pairs come to mind. If it's passive as well then I start to add 1-gapped suited connectors.

Anyone disagree?

[Cerril]

I would tend to agree. At 13% I start thinking 'too tight' and know what to do when faced with aggression from these people. Of couse with good postflop skills that can turn a fair amount of that around by keeping me off my feet, but with good postflop skills you're missing out on at least half again as many hands as you're playing.

[Williams21]

I am at 13.9 right now after 20,000 hands and making just under 5BB/100 hands at 2/4.

I understand the small sample size, but I am also playing 4 at a time and I hardly ever get caught with questionable post flop decisions. I think that at this level, especially on the nights and weekends on Party where I play, this is fine.

However, I think this number changes for everyone in different styles. If you can get away with a 23% after 50,000 hands, then by all means go for it.