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#1
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On SSHE: A Discussion of the \"Mystery Turn Raise\"
Here you are:
(Your venue here) 2/4 LHE No reads, posting in BB Hero is dealt (A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) 3 Folds, MP2 calls, fold, HJ calls, fold, Button calls, fold, Hero Raises, MP3 calls, HJ calls, Button calls. Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Hero bets, MP2 calls, fold, Button calls Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Hero bets, MP2 Raises, fold, Hero <font color="red">???</font> ---------------------------------------------- Here is the sort of question I see most of all in Micro & SS. A.) What line loses the least when behind / makes most when ahead? B.) Given no reads, what is standard. How about a TAG, LP, LAG? C.) What is the range of hands for MP2 and what does this raise mean? This could be a useful FAQish thread for SSHE players. Discuss. -ZEN |
#2
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Re: On SSHE: A Discussion of the \"Mystery Turn Raise\"
Here's my play for all the cases:
Readless: Call down. LP: Call down. TAG: Call down. LAG: 3-bet. Readless I can't put a player on a hand for obvious reasons. For an LP player it could be a K or 2-pair or a set or who knows but I call down. I can't put the TAG on a limped K, but TAG doesn't always mean a good player, so this could be a set of 5's or QTs, I've seen both. The LAG is the easiest to 3-bet because they'd do this with any K or sometimes a 3 or sometimes 8-high. |
#3
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Re: On SSHE: A Discussion of the \"Mystery Turn Raise\"
[ QUOTE ]
Here's my play for all the cases: Readless: Call down. LP: Call down. TAG: Call down. LAG: 3-bet. Readless I can't put a player on a hand for obvious reasons. For an LP player it could be a K or 2-pair or a set or who knows but I call down. I can't put the TAG on a limped K, but TAG doesn't always mean a good player, so this could be a set of 5's or QTs, I've seen both. The LAG is the easiest to 3-bet because they'd do this with any K or sometimes a 3 or sometimes 8-high. [/ QUOTE ] what Shant said. Folding sucks. |
#4
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Re: On SSHE: A Discussion of the \"Mystery Turn Raise\"
To those who advocate 3-betting a LAG:
What percent does an unknown LAG show you K5 (or such). The point about hidden outs was fantastic; something I think we ignore too much. My concern is that we are reverse-dominated after this turn and we have fewer outs than we think in this case. I counted 3 similar situations last evening and 2/3 were a reverse dominated TP..the other was the 99 trying to find out if he was still good. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Keep it going! -ZEN |
#5
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Re: On SSHE: A Discussion of the \"Mystery Turn Raise\"
Let's see:
A) With no read, I think call, check/call - but perhaps I'm being too passive... something I'm trying to fix by posting/reading here. Trying to think more aggressively - maybe call, bet/fold is the right move standard move. B) Against a TAG, would anyone even consider folding the turn raise?? Again, maybe I'm just too passive. Against a LAG, maybe more likely to call, check/call C) MP2 possible hands: TAG: A3s, 22, 33, 44, 55, A5s. LAG: Above hands & 25s, 24s, 34s, 35s or any two/bluff |
#6
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Re: On SSHE: A Discussion of the \"Mystery Turn Raise\"
LOL, I more or less juist posted this exact same question.
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#7
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Re: On SSHE: A Discussion of the \"Mystery Turn Raise\"
LP: Call down. You're ahead/have hidden outs often enough and it's HU. But I seriously doubt you're ahead often enough to want more money to go in.
LAG/TAG: Call then donk/call vs most. 3-bet vs donkish LAGs and call down vs TAGs on the solid side of things. I know I often raise marginal hands w/showdown value from MP2s spot (intending to fold to a 3-bet). It costs the same as two calls and will give villian a chance to fold a hand that can outdraw me. |
#8
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Re: On SSHE: A Discussion of the \"Mystery Turn Raise\"
i usually reraise a frequent amount of time unless read is: "only raises with better than TP" but the hand described is very ragged and tough to put someone on A3 or trips just because they raise here. Ace-high might do this or A5 or 88-66 as well.
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#9
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Re: On SSHE: A Discussion of the \"Mystery Turn Raise\"
How many times is horrid opposition showing K5s/K5o etc
to make 3-betting profitable? Perhaps a stat/math person would like to prove that 3-betting a wide hand range in this situation is +EV. For what it's worth, I get shown 2 raggedy pair here what seems like >60% at this level. -ZEN |
#10
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Re: On SSHE: A Discussion of the \"Mystery Turn Raise\"
[ QUOTE ]
How many times is horrid opposition showing K5s/K5o etc to make 3-betting profitable? Perhaps a stat/math person would like to prove that 3-betting a wide hand range in this situation is +EV. For what it's worth, I get shown 2 raggedy pair here what seems like >60% at this level. -ZEN [/ QUOTE ] I see stuff like KQ/KJ TT more often the higher I played. |
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