20-40 Commerce hand, enjoy this one...

[Michael Davis]

8-handed. I raise UTG with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. A LP coldcaller and the BB make the pot three ways.

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checked to me, I bet, LP folds, BB checkraises, I call.

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checked to me and I bet! BB checkraises again, I call.

River: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Checked to me, I bet and suffer the ignominy of a trifecta. I fold.

-Michael

[mike l.]

to be fair ive had time to digest this one, and i think michael played it fine. there are some close/marginal choices esp. on the flop, but the river fold is expert gabe and i both agreed. sucker said it was horrid.

[Apocalypse]

Is folding to this riverbet really the mark of an expert or just a fetish sign of 'luv for the game'

Me personally, i could not fold here to this river CR with the nutflush in this size of a pot. Yeah i put the guy on a boat but [censored] that: i got the nutflush dammit. It just seems too much of a marginal decision(in either EV-direction) to even contemplate saving a bet here with this hand. I do got love(and hate, can't forget about the hate) for the game though so maybe i will too post hands like these some time in the far far away... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I guess i just have too many BIG errors in my game to work on to even bother thinking about iny tine winee errors like these at the moment [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ...

why has this post somehow turned into some introspective boohockey?

[mike l.]

"It just seems too much of a marginal decision(in either EV-direction) to even contemplate saving a bet here with this hand"

it's not marginal at all, it's as if your opponent has turned his cards face up, you were drawing dead and got there, time to save that last bet.

[Usagi_yo]

This is a question and not a dig. If folding to the 3rd checkraise on the river was expert play, isn't this over shadowed by the poor call to the first checkraise post flop? You had no draw and just overcards. Calling the checkraise on the turn is very debatable.

Sorry, I don't buy this as an expert play. I see it as compounding mistakes brought on by a poor decision post flop.

[andyfox]

Poster had backdoor straight and flush draws as well as the two overcards on the flop. Raiser's most likely hand is a jack; poster will win roughly 25-30% of the time against a jack. He was getting 8.5:1.

Aside from that, making the correct play on the river does not "compound" what may or may not have been an incorrect play on the flop. If the new evidence presented on the turn and the river gives me cause to reevaluate my initial read on the flop, it behooves me to act on that evidence.

[DrGutshot]

were you expecting him to fold to the turn bet?

I would take the freecard in a heartbeat, and then decide whether or not to call the river unimproved (I probably wouldn't).

-DrG

[Michael Davis]

Expecting, no, but I don't have to expect him to fold if he does it enough.

-Michael

[Gabe]

but he won't.

[esspo]

If he leads the flop, the turn bet would be +ev.

After the checkraise I take the free card.