JJ, too timid?

#1 11-18-2005, 05:35 AM

Typical Hand for me. Am I too timid?

100nl Pokerstars. I'm in small blind($0.50) with JJ.

MP(unknown) raises to $3, I call, everyone else folds.

Pot: $7
Flop: 8 8 4

I bet $3, trying to see were I stand. MP Raises to $7.
I call, thinking that I show some strength with my call on this flop.

Pot: $21
Turn: 2

I check, he bets $15, I fold

What do you think?

Skuzzy · #2 11-18-2005, 05:50 AM

overpairs suck, and my line(s) are bogus but...

Preflop is $3 a std raise or did you gain some info here?
Flop - I bet the pot with overpairs, top pairs, two pairs, sets in fact anything and everything short of quad A's when OOP. My thoughts are that when you lead into a preflop raiser you have to give a good reason to fold and less than half the pot is just a reason to think he push you off your hand.
On the turn your line continued to smell of weakness so you never get to know if you had the best hand.

Overall I vote yes. too timid. Bet your overpair hard to protect it from opportunistic bluffs and steals. It's easier to let go when a villain repops your pot sized bet and as you were wiling to call his raise on the flop you should seriously have considered betting at least that much to begin with.

#3 11-18-2005, 06:07 AM

Thanks for a well thought trough response. What you say makes sense.
How would you proceed if he just calls your pot sized bet?

Skuzzy · #4 11-18-2005, 06:47 AM

If he calls a pot sized flop bet what do you put him on? My guess, he has an overpair too as he raised preflop. AA-QQ and your sunk, TT or 99 and your good. Reads are now important but with none I check the turn and probably fold to a strong bet. I just cant see much that calls here that you beat. The way you played it though is an invitation to steal. Hell now I'm much less certain than I was.

Why this line sucks is clearly that I am OOP with a suspect holding. I bet the pot on the flop and built a pot that it's going to be scary to play. Playing big pots OOP is how you go broke. Don't listen to me, I'm a walking contradiction.

Problem is that if you aren't leading here you might let AK catch a free card to beat you etc. When someone calls it lets you know your situation is likely to be marginal. He thinks his hand is good enough to play and in this case his likely holding is similar to yours. For the average player raising 99 would be unlikely, even TT is often limped in so you are probably beat here if called. Oh what a tangled web.