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#1
08-25-2004, 09:46 AM
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fischman mistake?
im only learning the holdem thing, and have never played a tourney, but watching last night, the guy goes all in for 7k and fischman just calls with his AK? i would think if hes gonna call an over the top bet from brunson, he should have gone allin on his own, or at least put a good sized raise in. what was he hoping, everybody else would fold? or maybe somebody puts in a small raise after him that he can call?
im not ragging on fischman (even though i dont like him very much), just seemed an odd place for just a call. 
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#2
08-25-2004, 10:21 AM
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Re: fischman mistake?
If you are referring to the play I think you are, the first guy goes all in w/ small suited connectors, Fischman calls w/ AK and Brunson goes all in w/ KK. At that point Fischman says " I wish I'd done that" meaning moved in himself. You are right it was a mistake, and he knew it right away. He should have tried for a heads up pot. It probably did'nt matter though.
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#3
08-25-2004, 10:25 AM
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Re: fischman mistake?
Good luck moving Brunson off pocket kings
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#4
08-25-2004, 10:48 AM
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Re: fischman mistake?
[ QUOTE ]
Good luck moving Brunson off pocket kings [/ QUOTE ] yeah, the idea wasnt to get brunson off kings, but possibly Qs, Js, Ts, etc. but i do recall doyle saying he was debating whether or not to play that hand
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#5
08-25-2004, 10:27 AM
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Re: fischman mistake?
Fischman buthered the play 2x here.
1. He should have just raised all in with his AK 2. having just called, when Doyle came over the top - He should have folded. I don't think there are many hands Doyle would have raised with there, knowing one guy was all in and another had already called him, Doyle had to know he was gonna be a huge favorite to push in like he did. The only way Fischman should have called here is if he was pot committed, but if that was the case, he should have raised all in anyways.
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#6
08-25-2004, 10:35 AM
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Re: fischman mistake?
Fischman had to have put him on QQ. Its that simple. Even with that said its still a marginal call im my opinion. He might have KK 25% of the time,AA 25%, QQ 25%, and AK the other 25%(however i think doyle would fold AK here). Anyway Even though fishman knows there are more combinations of QQ than AA or KK he still should have a relatively easy fold. After all he wasn t really comitted that much. It looked to me like he just called planning to fold to an all in and then decided to call anyway it anyway when it happened. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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#9
08-26-2004, 02:52 PM
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Re: fischman mistake?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] (however i think doyle would fold AK here). [/ QUOTE ] Why on earth would you think that? [/ QUOTE ] Doyle had a huge chip stack. The person that moved all in had a realitively small stack. When fishcman flat called that sent up a warning flag to me that he had a small pair or a monster hoping to look weak. Now doyle knew that the first guy didn t have to have that great a hand since he was short stacked. However he aslo would have known that because fischman just flatcalled he either has a medium pair or a monster. First off either way doyle knows he a dog to the two hands combined. Second, if fichman does have a small pair hes not gonna give any furhter actoin unless its a rag flop or he hits a set so he has no real implied odds. And finally if if fischman does have a monster KK or AA doyle knows he in trouble a lot of trouble, and he doesn t want to have to risk that much on the first day of the tourney. However since Doyle had the monster and fischman had the AK it was a different story [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] PS- That should have been an eay fold for fichman. He wasn t even pot committed [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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#10
08-25-2004, 05:29 PM
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Re: fischman mistake?
Not raising all in himself was definitely a mistake but one I can definitely see most people potentially making. I see it often enough where someone calls an all-in just sort of figuring the pot size is enough that the first one in gets it. Obviously it's a mistake.
Once Doyle goes in he's gotta figure him on a huge hand but he might think his chances are good enough to warrant the call. As mentioned if Fischman figures he's up against a big pair (but not AA) and a small pair from the original all in, he has at least 3 untainted ace outs and possibly the kings. If all his outs are live he needs the same A or K (or straight etc.) to win the hand as he did before, but is now getting much better pot odds for it. Yes, tournament, pot odds not being worth getting busted over and all that, but the coin flip now has a much better reward. The worst thing he could be up against at this point (provided he isn't up against AA) is high cards he had dominated from the short stack, but which knock out one or more of his outs, and KK/QQ from Doyle. Otherwise he's sitting pretty. Of course, I don't think anyone needs to lose much sleep over this play, I'm pretty sure the outcome would have been the same no matter what.
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