30/60 Fastplaying for info

ALL1N · #1 07-23-2005, 10:05 PM

3-handed.

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Button raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB bets, Button calls, Hero CRs, BB 3-bets, Button calls, Hero calls (planning on check-folding most turns).

Thoughts?

mperich · #2 07-23-2005, 10:16 PM

I don't like the flop c/r, I think your info was plenty clear preflop. Check call flop, check fold turn unimproved.

-Mike

Klepton · #3 07-24-2005, 12:05 AM

i'd bet out this flop, then call a raise, and re-evaluate on the turn

BB could have AK or any two hearts and make this play

yanicehand · #4 07-24-2005, 01:54 AM

If it weren't 3 way capped preflop, I'd like this move. Seeing how it is, I'm really not too thrilled. BB cold capped and button called 2 cold, so they it's not like you're up against a hand that got sucked into the pot. Even though your check raise is aiming to get you info, you will still get a hand like JJ or TT stuck in the middle, and 3 handed I'm not so sure they let it go. I think one of these two will have a pair or AQ enough times to make this overall -ev. I check/fold to the flop action but I'm also very weak I think.

ALL1N · #5 07-25-2005, 06:10 AM

IMO my hand is much too strong to check-call, check fold the turn; bear in mind that AK is the BB's most likely hand here right now, and the Button has shown no indication of a pair.

So I'm posed with the problem of finding out whether my hand is good, and protecting it, without expending too many bets. I feel that while betting this flop and getting raised may offer the best protection, it doesn't really give any reliable information, and so this is a very expensive route. CR'ing is cheap and usually reliable, and if the BB does have AK (or AJ), it's very unlikely that the button is drawing to more than 3 outs, so I'm not all that concerned about protection.

Jgents · #6 07-25-2005, 10:36 AM

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IMO my hand is much too strong to check-call, check fold the turn; bear in mind that AK is the BB's most likely hand here right now, and the Button has shown no indication of a pair.

So I'm posed with the problem of finding out whether my hand is good, and protecting it, without expending too many bets. I feel that while betting this flop and getting raised may offer the best protection, it doesn't really give any reliable information, and so this is a very expensive route. CR'ing is cheap and usually reliable, and if the BB does have AK (or AJ), it's very unlikely that the button is drawing to more than 3 outs, so I'm not all that concerned about protection.

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I agree about the flop C/R, and I play it the same. You want the field to "think" that you have a big hand and are comitting yourself to showdown--this has the added benefit of perhaps slowing them down later, if they do not slow down on the flop. C/R for info can work/can be reliable if your opponents are predicatable, but I would not rely on this tactic purely for info gathering unless, again, your opponents are predictable. 3-betting your c/r can mean a slew of things, and this is where having good reads come in. Also, why do you seem to auto-put the BB on AK so easily?

ALL1N · #7 07-25-2005, 10:42 AM

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Also, why do you seem to auto-put the BB on AK so easily?

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I'm not. Pocket pairs come in combinations of 12 and pocket unpairs come in combinations of 32, so if his range is something like AK-AQ, AA-99, then he holds AK ~25% of the time (more probable than any other single holding).

Jgents · #8 07-25-2005, 11:00 AM

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Also, why do you seem to auto-put the BB on AK so easily?

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I'm not. Pocket pairs come in combinations of 12 and pocket unpairs come in combinations of 32, so if his range is something like AK-AQ, AA-99, then he holds AK ~25% of the time (more probable than any other single holding).

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Right. From a mathematical standpoint. Given the preflop and flop action, however, BB having AK I start to discount completely, unless he is a complete donkey and is playing AK this way. After he re-raises your c/r on the flop, I'm thinking more AQ than AK, along with 88-JJ, KK-AA as the more likely holdings.

ALL1N · #9 07-25-2005, 11:02 AM

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Given the preflop and flop action, however, BB having AK I start to discount completely

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Well of course, that why I made the play and followed it up with a fold.

bugstud · #10 07-25-2005, 11:23 AM

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[ QUOTE ]
Also, why do you seem to auto-put the BB on AK so easily?

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I'm not. Pocket pairs come in combinations of 12 and pocket unpairs come in combinations of 32, so if his range is something like AK-AQ, AA-99, then he holds AK ~25% of the time (more probable than any other single holding).

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. From a mathematical standpoint. Given the preflop and flop action, however, BB having AK I start to discount completely, unless he is a complete donkey and is playing AK this way. After he re-raises your c/r on the flop, I'm thinking more AQ than AK, along with 88-JJ, KK-AA as the more likely holdings.

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FWIW the 30 is aggro enough that you will see this some portion of the time.