PP 20/40 - KK hand

Dazarath · #1 11-17-2005, 04:38 AM

From the few hands I have on BB, he's a fish. Plus, cold-calling 2 more in the BB usually screams fish. I believe MP3 is a 2+2er, but I'm not 100% sure. For this hand, I am not worried about BB beating me; I'm more worried about what MP3 has.

First question, should I have 3-bet the flop?

Second question, should I have folded the turn? I was thinking that maybe MP3 knew he had BB beat and could push me off my hand. But I also knew that it'd be expensive to pay to find out.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, MP3 raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (9.66 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, BB raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.83 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP3 raises, Hero folds?

CardSharpCook · #2 11-17-2005, 04:52 AM

yeah. I've given up on an overpair many times, but the 3-4 times I folded the best hand still rankle me. I fold this. If MP3 has a Jack/boat it is time for him to be raising it. Add to that the bet out by the fish. He may be a fish, but he would also do this if he has a jack.

Dazarath · #3 11-17-2005, 04:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
He may be a fish, but he would also do this if he has a jack.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have this policy where I assume that any 30+ VPIP betting or check-raising the flop does not have the trips. So far, I've been correct a huge majority of the time. There could be an argument made for selective memory playing a part here, but whatever. I'm more worried about the TAG. On one hand, I don't want to pay him off drawing almost dead. On the other hand, he's able to put me on a hand and play accordingly. He's going to be smart enough to think past "I have trips, need to slowplay flop, raise turn".

CardSharpCook · #4 11-17-2005, 05:56 AM

Ok, I am MP3. I raised PF with XX and got 3bet, but didn't cap. I like the flop enough to stick around for the turn for 1 bet. Donkey bets into me. What do I know about the guy who 3bet me? He's a TAG, and he knows I'm a TAG. He can't have a Jack (unless he has 2 Jacks). No way he 3bets with a Jack in his hand (unless it is 2 jacks). OK, I'm likely ahead of 3bettor with my pair. But what does donkey have? Could have a 5, could have a 6, could have diamonds, could be bluffing, could have a jack. If I raise here, TAG should fold. He may not fold AA/KK, but he folds everything else and usually folds AA/KK.

OR

I'm MP3. I got AJ. I love the flop, but I know TAG. If I check to him on the turn, he WILL bet, and I can get him and maybe the donkey for 2 bets on the turn. That's much better than 2 bets on the flop. Donkey bets the turn. Damn. OK, Tag's folding most of his hands here, but the donkey might call down. Hell, mabye I'll get lucky and TAG will call down with AA-QQ. Time to raise.

I think that scenario 2 is much more common. But scenario 1 is certainly possible.

CardSharpCook · #5 11-17-2005, 02:37 PM

I misread the action. Or at least forgot the action when I wrote my reply.

Dazarath · #6 11-17-2005, 04:01 PM

The TAG called 2 cold on the flop and raised the turn. As a standard play, that screams of a J. On the other hand, if he knows I probably don't have a J and he has the fish beat, then it's a great play to make.

flawless_victory · #7 11-17-2005, 05:03 AM

i like all options besides fold.

veganmav · #8 11-17-2005, 01:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i like all options besides fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mind elaborating?

flawless_victory · #9 11-17-2005, 06:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i like all options besides fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mind elaborating?

[/ QUOTE ]
k.

basically, if MP has got to be putting you on AK/AQ rather than a big pair as you didnt threebet the flop...
if im MP i play 99 exactly like this... seems like a PP smaller than yours is soo likely a hand for him and the SBfish could have something totally inane...
i think KK is still good too often to fold.

it looks nasty (especially when you get shown trips), but i would call 2 cold on fourth and call one more on the end looking to get overcalls from fishy and show down the two kings for 3 bets.

Jeffage · #10 11-17-2005, 06:11 PM

It's quite the parlay that neither has trips or 5's full given the betting sequence on the flop. I think the solid player is going to bet 99 right into hero on the flop most of the time. Check-call two cold? Much less likely. Plus, fish in the blind DID checkraise the flop...he could have the jack. And good player who's coldcalling two knows this and calls two anyway. All in all, I don't see calling 80 on the turn as being profitable.

BTW, I like your posts alot. Total random aside but true - you make me think. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Jeff