What is a good/bad session at a B&M????

PokerBob · #1 01-10-2005, 11:07 AM

I usually play online, but in the last month I have played 7-8 sessions at Canterbury Park. Friday I won 55BB at 4/8, and yesterday I won 81BB, 48 at 3/6, 33 at 6/12. I've got to believe I am on the mother of all heaters. Anyone else have similar stories? Also, I know I am going to give some back sometime. What is the worst session you've had? Just curious. I have some idea what "normal" swings are like online, but am in the dark for B&M games.
Thanks,
PBob

steamboatin · #2 01-10-2005, 11:52 AM

Last Thursday, I won 29BB is about four hours and Friday I lost 21BB in about three hours. Does that give you some idea?

rookieplus · #3 01-10-2005, 12:03 PM

Most recent was +62BB in six hours at Turning Stone 3/6.

I find 3/6, 4/8, and 5/10 casino games very easy to beat, much more so than on line. The truth is that I've never had a negative session at B&M playing limit HE. Maybe I've just been lucky to get involved in incredibly soft games.

NLHE is another story. I don't stink at it but I can't seem to make the profit that I make at the limit tables. I may not be able to deal with the swings as well.

I haven't really considered moving up to 10/20 or above.

A while back I posted a question in a similar thread and got no responses so I'll do it again. I've continually read about how making 1-2BB/hour is considered an appropriate win rate. My B&M experience with so many bad players indicates that such an estimate is far too low. By way of example, if I played with my 12 year old son and his friends, I should win far more than 2BB/hour. So the question is - What is a decent win rate at lower limit B&M in the current poker climate?

IsaacW · #4 01-10-2005, 12:27 PM

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Most recent was +62BB in six hours at Turning Stone 3/6.

I find 3/6, 4/8, and 5/10 casino games very easy to beat, much more so than on line. The truth is that I've never had a negative session at B&M playing limit HE. Maybe I've just been lucky to get involved in incredibly soft games.

NLHE is another story. I don't stink at it but I can't seem to make the profit that I make at the limit tables. I may not be able to deal with the swings as well.

I haven't really considered moving up to 10/20 or above.

A while back I posted a question in a similar thread and got no responses so I'll do it again. I've continually read about how making 1-2BB/hour is considered an appropriate win rate. My B&M experience with so many bad players indicates that such an estimate is far too low. By way of example, if I played with my 12 year old son and his friends, I should win far more than 2BB/hour. So the question is - What is a decent win rate at lower limit B&M in the current poker climate?

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The online games play tougher than the B&M games at equal limits. $2/4 at Party is way tougher than $2/4 at Foxwoods.

A good B&M dealer will get in about 20 hands in a half-hour sitting if your table is not acting too slowly. At 40 hands an hour, 2 BB/hour is 5BB/100. That is about what might be sustainable for an excellent player at micro-limits online (say 50c/$1 at Party). 1 BB/hour is of course 2.5 BB/100, and this is the winrate of a decent player at the micro-limits online.

Therefore, I am not inclined to think that a winrate above 2 BB/hour is sustainable in a B&M environment, because of the slow rate of play.

rookieplus · #5 01-10-2005, 02:05 PM

I know that 10BB/hour is not sustainable (and I do not claim that kind of return over any period of time that could be considered statistically significant) but I've had so much success at B&M low limit games that the idea of 1-2BB/hour seemed too low of an expectation.

As for another comment that I read - that I might "believe" I've never had a negative session, I think I was careful to limit that claim to B&M low limit HE. I am certain that I am correct in that assessment. I am also certain that as I play more, I will undoubtedly have losing sessions as I do on line. I wish I had never left a casino or poker room with less than I cam in with, but that's not the case.

chief444 · #6 01-10-2005, 02:23 PM

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As for another comment that I read - that I might "believe" I've never had a negative session, I think I was careful to limit that claim to B&M low limit HE. I am certain that I am correct in that assessment.

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I meant if you "believe" 1-2 BB/hour is too low of an expectation. In no way, shape or form did I mean to imply you were not being truthful about not having a losing session. I was just saying that since you haven't ever had a losing session you probably haven't played that many sessions. That's all.

PokerBob · #7 01-10-2005, 02:40 PM

I am no expert, but I believe that the advantage of actually being able to SEE your opponents has to give you an advantage, especially at 3/6 and 4/8. (Yesterday at 6/12 the guy next to me let out a disappointed sigh when the flop came 995. At showdown he showed his qaud 9's.) Some of the tells exhibited by these players are obvious. (Another situation: I raise AQs utg. One guy calls. Flop comes ATT. I bet, he calls. Turn is a brick. I bet, he raises. I look at him, who is calmly and disinterestedly watching TV, and think "does he really have me? He acts like he doesn't care, which clearly means he has a monster. But I can't get away from TPQK." I look him up and he shows pocket A's. I should have given him for credit for a ten and mucked, but I have leaks just like everybody else.) I know there are less hands/hr at B&M, but the advantage gained from a moderate ability to read people has to count for something.

I am by no means suggesting that I will always win at B&M games, but the players I have seen there are infinitely worse than even the clowns I run into at Party 1/2. Isn't B&M at 4/8 more profitable (or at least close) to 4-tabling at Party 1/2?

ScottTheFish · #8 01-10-2005, 02:56 PM

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Isn't B&M at 4/8 more profitable (or at least close) to 4-tabling at Party 1/2?

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I doubt it, due the higher rake and tipping. Plus you don't play 4x as many hands 4 tabling online as 1 table B&M, you probably play 6x more [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

PokerBob · #9 01-10-2005, 03:37 PM

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Isn't B&M at 4/8 more profitable (or at least close) to 4-tabling at Party 1/2?

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I doubt it, due the higher rake and tipping. Plus you don't play 4x as many hands 4 tabling online as 1 table B&M, you probably play 6x more [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

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You are probably right, but (at least for me) it can be difficult to establish solid reads on players while 4-tabling.

chief444 · #10 01-10-2005, 12:38 PM

1-2 BB/hour long term is terrific. If you've never had a negative session or if you believe otherwise then you haven't played much at all.

The lower limit games have generally poor opponents but you're lucky to get 25-30 hands an hour because they're very loose and slow. Plus the rake is usually far more significant than at either the higher limit games or online.

The swings I would say vary quite a bit depending on what game you're playing and obviously NL swings can be very high. But the ones PokerBob listed seem extremely high to me for limit even if you play in very loose/aggressive games.