Calling all ins that make no sense

Roland32 · #1 09-27-2005, 02:02 PM

Would u call this?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) converter

UTG (t1710)
UTG+1 (t1395)
MP1 (t600)
MP2 (t1895)
Hero (t1750)
CO (t1585)
Button (t1245)
SB (t1460)
BB (t1860)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 raises to t600, 1 fold, Hero raises to t1750, 4 folds.

Flop: (t2425) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t2425) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t2425) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t2425

Results in white below: 
MP1 has Qh 9h (one pair, queens).
Hero has Tc Ts (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: Hero wins t2425.

pergesu · #2 09-27-2005, 02:03 PM

People wear black socks with tennis shoes. It's senseless. But it's even more senseless to wonder why they do it... especially if you're a black-socks salesman.

GtrHtr · #3 09-27-2005, 02:04 PM

standard at the 11s, which is why you shouldn't have pushed this hand PF on level 3 even tho you were lucky not to get sucked out on.

junkmail3 · #4 09-27-2005, 03:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
standard at the 11s, which is why you shouldn't have pushed this hand PF on level 3 even tho you were lucky not to get sucked out on.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you saying?

That pushing with trash at the 11s is normal, and with a known better hand you shouldn't call/push because you're afraid of getting 'sucked out on'.

This seems absurd to me.

I had a similar situation.

I'm on the button with 900 and JJ.
UTG pushes with 700 chips at 15/30. It folds to me.

Should I fold this?
Of course not.

Roland32 · #5 09-27-2005, 05:12 PM

sorry forgot to state that this was a PS $27t

pooh74 · #6 09-27-2005, 05:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
sorry forgot to state that this was a PS $27t

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a call actually. You would rarely see a hand you're dominated by, he's short and gambling to try and get back. Plus you have TT, youre better than a flip half of the time maybe, thats a good edge.

lorinda · #7 09-27-2005, 05:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm on the button with 900 and JJ.
UTG pushes with 700 chips at 15/30. It folds to me.

Should I fold this?
Of course not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not?

Lori

junkmail3 · #8 09-27-2005, 09:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm on the button with 900 and JJ.
UTG pushes with 700 chips at 15/30. It folds to me.

Should I fold this?
Of course not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not?

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I know that there is the thought that you have bigger edges later and don't want to take coinflips early since you can push other edges later. (I don't know if this is anywhere close to why you're asking or not).

But like others have said, the chance that your hand is dominated (or even in a coin flip) at this point are pretty small. I would say that the raisers range (at these levels) would be 99-, AJ-, KQ-, QJ- ... or something like that.

Something pretty weak overall. Of those hands, you're in pretty good shape most of the time. At least it's a pretty big edge with the exception of KQ.

Of those times when the raiser has AA/KK/etc, just start up another one. I just don't think there are many logical situations in which folding this hand (or the TT) in this situation would be rational. I think you're too far ahead too often.

What was the purpose of asking 'why not'? Or was it just to get me to articuatle it more? If you think that 'of course not' is too strong of a statement, what would you reply to the question, 'should I fold this?' and why?

lorinda · #9 09-27-2005, 09:57 PM

I think your example is quite different to the post in question.

The original post has slightly higher blinds, and we have a stack where we can afford to be wrong with our tens.

I feel that in your example, an error pretty much ends our tournament, and we are only at level two, so we can afford to wait for a bigger edge (as you mention) I think you'll be up against a big pair or two overcards often enough to turn your JJ pretty horrible, but with the TT, even though the same applies, we only lose 600 when we are wrong... which will have a much lower impact on our long term ROI.

Edit: Furthermore, in the OP's post, the raise is coming from someone who is more likely to be desperate than in your post.

Edit2: (God this was a loose post) When I say 'lose 600' when refering to the first example. I mean lose 600 from a larger stack of course.

Lori

lorinda · #10 09-27-2005, 09:58 PM

The purpose was to get you to articulate it because I'm not sure I agree.

I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

Lori