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#1
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Raise the flop?
The guy who bets out is a full time player with 24/10, 1.4 in stats.
The other guy is a LAG with something like 60/20, 1.5 in stats. Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(6 handed)</font> link Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls. Flop: (8.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP calls, CO folds, Hero calls. It feels like I should have raised the flop. At the time of play I wasn't sure. And unfortunatly I'm still not. Why should I raise the flop? It would be very nice with a really good explaination that I can print, frame and then put on my wall. |
#2
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Re: Fold or call? Call or fold?
My reson for not raising the flop was something along the lines of:
BB could have any good hand, at least KX, or a flush draw. I think two pair or a straight is most probable. MP could probably have any pair any draw. Most likly I'm drawing now, to my back-door flush, straight, two pair. If I raise then I open myself up to a 3-bet or even worse albeit probably less likly a turn ch/r. If I raise with the best hand and they don't push me around later, then all I've done is making them pay 1SB extra a head. EDIT: I think that means that I lose a "little" more when behind than what I win when I'm ahead, since they are more probable to draw me out, than I am to draw out. It feels like the disadvantages of raising are bigger than the advantages. I'd rather just call and bet if checked to. Then if I don't improve I can see to that 1SB goes in on flop and 2SB on turn and river. I am in control. Is my thinking flawed or insufficient? What is it that I haven't considered? |
#3
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Re: Raise the flop?
I just call this flop. Your hand is mediocre on this type of flop and in danger of being a 2nd best hand that will pay dearly. I just call and bet if they check to me and raise if I improve. BB's flop lead is somewhat scary, although it could just be a strong draw.
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#4
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Re: Raise the flop?
I raise this flop more often then I call. It makes the rest of the hand easier and I feel like I've got quite a bit of equity even with 3 broadway out.
Krishan |
#5
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Re: Raise the flop?
[ QUOTE ]
I raise this flop more often then I call. It makes the rest of the hand easier and I feel like I've got quite a bit of equity even with 3 broadway out. Krishan [/ QUOTE ] How will the hand become easier to play with a raise? I feel that the hand will become easier to play if I call. |
#6
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Re: Raise the flop?
Okay.
You call, they lead the turn, then what? Do you call again? #1 - I think you have an equity edge here. Push it on the flop. #2 - Raising it makes it easier because if you get 3-bet, you can call and fold turn UI. If they just call and check the turn to you, you can bet. If they call, I'd assume I'm good. If they check/raise the turn, you know you're behind. |
#7
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Re: Raise the flop?
[ QUOTE ]
#2 - Raising it makes it easier because if you get 3-bet, you can call and fold turn UI. If they just call and check the turn to you, you can bet. If they call, I'd assume I'm good. If they check/raise the turn, you know you're behind. [/ QUOTE ] But I don't like folding turn on a blank when I have so many outs: 4 outs to a straight 6 outs to two pair 2 outs to a set ... some outs good some outs very tainted, but still alot of equity. If I could fold turn UI and it would't cost me so much equity then I'd feel a raise would make the hand easier to play. A case could be made for folding the river UI for the same cost as calling down, but then it would only be one bet to SD with OP :P |
#8
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Re: Raise the flop?
[ QUOTE ]
Raising it makes it easier because if you get 3-bet, you can call and fold turn UI [/ QUOTE ] I don't know about that. Let's say Hero raises, BB 3-bets, MP calls, and Hero calls. There are now 8.75 BB in the pot. If BB leads out on the turn and MP calls, you'll be getting 10.75:1 to call. Outs (discounted) are: - 2 (1.5) for an Ace - 4 (3.5) for a Queen - 12 (4) for 2 pair, assuming the turn is a non-club and doesn't pair the board - 9 for a club if the turn is a club The turn call is a pretty easy call UI unless faced with calling 2 bets cold. Like SSHE says, a lot of times when you build a pot early with a big hand you usually commit yourself to showing it down because of pot odds. |
#9
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Re: Raise the flop?
as mentioned you cant fold the turn when 3bet on the flop because you often have 9 outs to improve.
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#10
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Re: Raise the flop?
[ QUOTE ]
I raise this flop more often then I call. It makes the rest of the hand easier and I feel like I've got quite a bit of equity even with 3 broadway out. Krishan [/ QUOTE ] I'd really be interested in hearing more about this if someone would be willing to elaborate. It would be most interesting with a generic explanation... that I can print, frame and put on the wall for future hands... |
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