Top pair with a rag kicker

jpym84 · #1 07-01-2004, 11:43 AM

I have a tendency to mess up playing trash hands from the big blind. Am I being too agressive here? Should I be worried about the SB having a better kicker?

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks,

Flop: (5 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, SB calls.

River: (6.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB shows Ts Th (one pair, tens).
Hero shows Jd 3c (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.50 BB.

MarkD · #2 07-01-2004, 11:54 AM

I play it the same way.

Your opponent royally screwed up by not raising pre-flop.

Vern · #3 07-01-2004, 12:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
River: (6.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you played it great on the turn, you may have even gotten a jack with a kicker that beat yours but still weak to fold. Were you gonna throw away to a re-raise on the turn? I don't like the bet on the river here however, what do you do if he raises you? There are 260 hands that beat you on the river out of 991. I would rather see the showdown with second pair + board kicker than try to get one more bet when a player is unlikely to call you with a hand you beat. Especially when the river comes Ace, since at PS .25/.50 players will stick around with one overcard as long as it is an ace.

Vern

Greg J · #4 07-01-2004, 12:50 PM

hey jpym84 (or anyone else)

I'm thinking of moving up there. How is the play as compared to the lower nanolimits?

Thanks

chief444 · #5 07-01-2004, 12:55 PM

Nice hand. I play it the same on all streets.

Xiphoid · #6 07-01-2004, 12:59 PM

I think this is a pretty standard flop bet here. You have to get in the habit of betting out top pair on the flop because more times than not, you'll be ahead.

Had you bet the flop, you wouldn't have gotten that bet from the SB on the turn. He'd check to you and you bet your top pair out again.

nothumb · #7 07-01-2004, 01:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Had you bet the flop, you wouldn't have gotten that bet from the SB on the turn. He'd check to you and you bet your top pair out again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Being bet into and able raise on the turn is what knocked everyone out. Maybe knocked out a junk ace, who knows? I think the flop check is good, but you do go for a check-raise if it's bet from late position, right?

I like your play very much.

NT

LowDown22 · #8 07-01-2004, 01:05 PM

I think you played it well.

What would you have done had the SB bet on the flop?

chief444 · #9 07-01-2004, 01:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a pretty standard flop bet here. You have to get in the habit of betting out top pair on the flop because more times than not, you'll be ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming he was hoping to be able to check/raise a LP bet on the flop to protect his very vulnerable hand. Although I wouldn't say trying to check/raise the flop here is a standard play it is certainly not far from it.

[ QUOTE ]
Had you bet the flop, you wouldn't have gotten that bet from the SB on the turn. He'd check to you and you bet your top pair out again.

[/ QUOTE ]
He gained 2BB's from SB on the turn and would have gained 1.5BB's from SB on the flop and turn had he bet the flop. Plus the turn raise got the pot heads-up which is generally a good thing with TPNK.

Xiphoid · #10 07-01-2004, 01:19 PM

With a vulnerable hand such as this, you don't want to give four others a free ride to the turn, where anything could happen... bottom pair now picks up two pair, a low pocket-pair now picks up his set, a back-door flush picks up one of his suited cards, an A or K hits and someone pairs and on and on and on.

I think you improve your chances by quite a bit when you bet the flop and get junk like 5x, Ax, Kx, gutshots and back-door flushes out.

It is true that you cannot do anything about the four flush draw and if there's a strong straight draw out there, but what you can do is get some of the other junk out that could beat you.

I think you need a stronger hand here to be able to wait until the turn to raise.