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#1
06-23-2004, 12:20 AM
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This one kinda bugged me. See the turn?
Mucks 10-20. My reads were a little off so i was giving them a little less factor strength. If that makes sense...
3 limpers to me and I jack it from the button with KTc BB calls along with the other 3. Flop Ks Qd 4d BB bets out, 1 caller, CO raises. I stop to think. Co's raise i feel is a position raise. Draw maybe. Except her bet speed was pretty firm, so it has a touch of protection feel on it. If it's protection, i could be outkicked easily. BB, i didnt' see how he reacted to the raise, so i'm not sure the likelihood of me being bet behind on this one. He can go either way here. I figure I'm in a raise/fold spot here. I dont like calling in this spot. I'd raise, then check behind on the turn unless i improved. But something just doesn't seem right here. My kicker isn't that great. The aggression kind of suprised me as it wasn't normally like this on most flops. Which may have hindered my decision. After some thought, I folded. Would you see the turn? Thanks in advance... b 
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#2
06-23-2004, 01:38 AM
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Re: This one kinda bugged me. See the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
Mucks 10-20. My reads were a little off so i was giving them a little less factor strength. If that makes sense... [/ QUOTE ] makes sense. perfect sense...sometimes the spidy sense is in full effect and you're nailing hands like K8s from players left and right. not only getting the type of hand but the freakin hole cards...and other days players are throwing you for a loop playing hands all wierd and bad and crazy and you don't have a good handle.."factor strength" of your reads goes down and, personally, i tighten up a bit. [ QUOTE ] 3 limpers to me and I jack it from the button with KTc BB calls along with the other 3. [/ QUOTE ] fine. [ QUOTE ] Flop Ks Qd 4d BB bets out, 1 caller, CO raises. I stop to think. Co's raise i feel is a position raise. Draw maybe. Except her bet speed was pretty firm, so it has a touch of protection feel on it. If it's protection, i could be outkicked easily. BB, i didnt' see how he reacted to the raise, so i'm not sure the likelihood of me being bet behind on this one. He can go either way here. I figure I'm in a raise/fold spot here. I dont like calling in this spot. I'd raise, then check behind on the turn unless i improved. But something just doesn't seem right here. My kicker isn't that great. The aggression kind of suprised me as it wasn't normally like this on most flops. Which may have hindered my decision. After some thought, I folded. Would you see the turn? Thanks in advance... b [/ QUOTE ] i fold here too on one of those days. no question. -Barron
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#4
06-23-2004, 11:45 AM
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Re: This one kinda bugged me. See the turn?
I suggest that you were not sure enough of your feel on what CO had to fold in this situation:
Maybe protection? Maybe a draw? Maybe a position raise? Assuming BB also calls the raise, you're getting 7.5:1 on your $20 call, you have top pair, and best positon. IMO, I would definitely see the turn, unless you have a firmer read on what CO has.
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#6
06-23-2004, 01:13 PM
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Re: This one kinda bugged me. See the turn?
If your opponents are pretty straight forward and you read the situation right, there's nothing wrong with folding after you raise preflop and have it raised back to you on the flop.
On the other hand, if they are over-aggressive, folding would be a mistake. I think this one is player dependant and one in which you should trust your read. I wouldn't lose any sleep over the fold.
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#7
06-23-2004, 04:09 PM
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Re: This one kinda bugged me. See the turn?
Let me also chime in and say that I'm not particularly fond of the fold. I realize that the point of a raise like this on the Button is keep people tied into the pot in case that you have some sort of nut draw, and that it can backfire when you flop a reverse implied odds hand instead, but that doesn't relieve you of your responsibility stay involved in a big pot when you flop something like top pair.
I'd 3-bet and play poker from there. [ QUOTE ] Mucks 10-20. My reads were a little off so i was giving them a little less factor strength. If that makes sense... 3 limpers to me and I jack it from the button with KTc BB calls along with the other 3. Flop Ks Qd 4d BB bets out, 1 caller, CO raises. I stop to think. Co's raise i feel is a position raise. Draw maybe. Except her bet speed was pretty firm, so it has a touch of protection feel on it. If it's protection, i could be outkicked easily. BB, i didnt' see how he reacted to the raise, so i'm not sure the likelihood of me being bet behind on this one. He can go either way here. I figure I'm in a raise/fold spot here. I dont like calling in this spot. I'd raise, then check behind on the turn unless i improved. But something just doesn't seem right here. My kicker isn't that great. The aggression kind of suprised me as it wasn't normally like this on most flops. Which may have hindered my decision. After some thought, I folded. Would you see the turn? Thanks in advance... b [/ QUOTE ]
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#8
06-23-2004, 07:54 PM
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Re: This one kinda bugged me. See the turn?
[ QUOTE ]
I suggest that you were not sure enough of your feel on what CO had to fold in this situation: Maybe protection? Maybe a draw? Maybe a position raise? Assuming BB also calls the raise, you're getting 7.5:1 on your $20 call, you have top pair, and best positon. IMO, I would definitely see the turn, unless you have a firmer read on what CO has. [/ QUOTE ] My main concern was getting raised behind me. I wasnt sure what BB had. If anything, if i see the turn, i think i want to put some pressure on and raise here instead of calling. b
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#10
06-23-2004, 08:24 PM
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Re: This one kinda bugged me. See the turn?
Why is this a raise or fold situaion. And if you did raise why would you check the turn unimproved? And why wouldn't you consider a cold call on the flop then raise the turn and check the river unimproved.
Well lets go over what the CO might have. Would she limp in the CO with AA-QQ, AK, KQ? Would she play a set of 4's this fast on the flop with the Preflop raiser behind her. I'm guessing probably not so the only hand you're really scared of is exactly KJ. And you don't think you're beat by the other players in the hand so I'm thinking you see the turn. But if you folded I don't think anyone could flame you too badly.
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