Somewhat interesting hand imo

[Saborion]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

MP2: 3-bet UTG limper + UTG+1 pre-flop raiser with JJ in BB. Bet out on AKx flop. Bet turn again UTG calls but PFR folds.
SB: No notes or reads.

I'll post my thoughts later, followed by the results shortly after. Oh.
1: Should I have bet the turn?
2: What do I do on the river if I don't bet the turn, which of course is irrelevant if I should've bet the turn.

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $2. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, SB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (20 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (13 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (13 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>. Now what?

[Alobar]

hmmm, very interesting hand.

With the diamond in your hand I check the turn as well. If mp2 was betting his draw on the flop your going to get checkraised and you have to call. However a bet here might get the SB to fold a hand like KK or QQ and maybe by some freak miracle mp2 has Ax and folds (prolly hoping for too much). hmmm, I dunno, the more I think about it, the more I think I might bet here.

The way you played it, call the river. You're getting 13-1 so you only need to win like 8% of the time.

[Piz0wn0reD!!!!!!]

Lets say he did bet the turn, like i prolly would, and it gets check-raised. If the 4th diomond doesnt hit the river, then what? fold/check behind?

[DaveFoldsFive]

If I bet the river and get checkraised and call, I'm heavily considering folding to the Ax or flush when I'm bet on the river...

[Saborion]

Well, a bet on the turn might make the SB fold a better hand. The reason I didn't bet though, was that I could get a free shot at drawing out if I were behind. A Q or a diamond might make me a winner.

SB played his hand like he had a pair between JJ-KK. BUT, he could also have AA, going for a check-raise on the turn think one of us will bet. I didn't think about that at the table though, acted a bit too fast, only thinking about the free card. Now when I think about it, checking behind is clearly the best option I had.

The thing is, when the SB checked the river again, I put him on a pair between JJ-KK. And if he has a pair between JJ and KK, what is my best move on the river, given that MP2 can have
1: a pair of aces
2: ANY pair
3: the flush

Think about it. What is my best play on the river, given how the hand have been played so far?

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Lets say he did bet the turn, like i prolly would, and it gets check-raised. If the 4th diomond doesnt hit the river, then what? fold/check behind?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I got checkraised and a diamond doesnt fall on the river I fold to a bet

[Alobar]

I don't see AA c/r the turn when the scare card hits, so I wouldnt have been to worried about that.

If you're suggesting a raise on the river is the right play, I don't think it works enough to be profitable. After you wiff the turn SB isnt going to buy you have and Ace so even if he has KK I think he still might call. add that mp2 could very well have you beat, so you completely negate the reasons you checked behind on the turn. If you're going to spend 2 BB to try and get SB to fold a better hand, the turn would have been a much better spot to do it.

[Saborion]

I disagree.
And I'm quite confident that the SB doesn't have AK-AJ since he's then likely to have bet somewhere, the flop most likely. AA? No way would he check the river after the lack of action on the turn. So KK-JJ is my guess. QQ, very doubtful. KK or JJ it is then.

So not only do I have to worry about beating MP2 if I decide to call. I need to worry about beating the SB as well. The pot contains 14 BB when it's my turn to act on the river. Should I call? IF the SB has KK, isn't it worth another 1 BB for the potential win if I do have MP2 beat but not the SB? Look at my play from his point of view. I raise and cap pre-flop. I raise MP2's bet on the flop, check behind on the turn, then raise the river. The turn check is a weird play, but he has to call a double bet, and the action indicates at least one of us has K's beat. Or? Maybe he will call, maybe he won't. Maybe he has J's and the other player a pair of T's. Maybe I will win by simply calling. Maybe he'll fold K's to a single bet, although I doubt that.

All in all, if I want to increase my chance of winning this pot, which is HUGE btw, I think I have a clear raise on the river. Wouldn't you agree?

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
All in all, if I want to increase my chance of winning this pot, which is HUGE btw, I think I have a clear raise on the river. Wouldn't you agree?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, like I said. With you checking through the turn I think the SB calls.

For every reason you gave why its right to do it on the river, is why you should have done it on the turn

[Saborion]

I suppose it wasn't all that interesting after all.
MP2 had pocket 2's and the SB had pocket kings, no king of diamond.