Omaha/8. Should I just stop playing in tournaments?

[jedi]

I've been playing some Omaha/8 tournaments. A few sit and go's on Party as well as the multi-table tournaments at Ultimate Bet. My results have been decent. I'm doing well at the SnGs on Party but I'm wondering if this is simply due to luck and not good play. If so, should I just stop playing? The sit and go limits move up too fast for my liking, and if I don't get a hand early, I'll just wind up going all-in at a later level with nothing more than a naked A2 or a good, but not great hand. I think my wins are due more to luck than my good play, and my losses are also due to my luck in getting a good draw, but not making it and being short-stacked much earlier than I'd like.

At the multi-tables, I've finished on the bubble a few times. Once, it was 8th place out of 48 when it paid top 5. Yesterday, I finished 13th out of 55 just missing the top table. I'm still kicking myself for that one, as I had a good chance to fold and make the money, but I got caught with a mediocre hand and flop and the big blind and didn't win any half of the pot. I tell myself that this was okay and I needed to take a chance to move up and not just slide by, but I'm still kicking myself for not folding.

It's a little discouraging to be so close for me. Should I just quit playing these? It almost seems like there's more luck here than in Hold Em tournaments. Maybe I should loosen up my starting hand requirements in an attempt to build chips early?

[Buzz]

"should I just stop playing?"

Jedi - You're the ony one who can answer that. Think about why you play poker and why you play Omaha-8. If you're truly playing poker to make money, then you probably want to find a way to optimize your winnings. However, if you're playing because you enjoy the game and the money is incidental, then maybe you should recognize your goal actually is much the same as many duffers in golf - to simply improve your game and enjoy yourself while you're doing it.

Of course it's hard to enjoy yourself much in poker when you lose.

Interestingly, in golf you can win any time you want. All you have to do is find a really poor playing foursome. That's so trivial and obvious that most golfers don't bother with it, instead simply trying to improve their handicaps. Yet the same is true in poker. All you need to do to win is find a table with weaker players than you. Period. That's the secret of winning. That's all there really is to it.

And it's easier to find a single table you can beat than a large tournament field you can beat. It's just that simple.

"limits move up too fast for my liking"

Join the club.

"I got caught with a mediocre hand and flop and the big blind"

Been there. Done that. Yep, it's a mistake to chase.

"Maybe I should loosen up my starting hand requirements in an attempt to build chips early?"

Seems more skillful to somehow hang in there than to loosen up and hope for luck. But that's how some people make it to the final table. My experience is that tough Omaha-8 tournament foes are tight/aggressive - not loose. Maniacs are also tough in an Omaha-8 tournament, but you usually can out-wait them. Let them self-destruct against someone else. It's a shame not to get their chips, but not worth the risk.

My own opinion is the pay-offs in tournaments are too top heavy. You either have to win or settle for a part of first place to make playing in tournaments profitable. People like you give up because they don't get a return often enough.

What's strange is that the people who make slot machines recognize the principle of giving frequent pay-offs. And giving a little back now and then. keeps those slot players pulling on those handles, trying to hit the big one. Same with the lottery. If lottery players didn't get an occasional $5 win on a $1 ticket, they'd get discouraged (like you) and stop playing the lottery. But somehow the idiots who organize poker tournaments don't recognize this simple fact. And the big wins are simply too scarce to keep you from getting discouraged.

I think first you have to get it clear in your own head why you're playing poker and why you're playing Omaha-8. If it's just to make money, perhaps you can make more doing something else.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[crockpot]

is omaha/8 a bad tournament game? that depends on why you play in tournaments. if you enjoy gaining expectation by sitting out and watching the other players go to war with hands that are very close together in value (which is of course a backbone of tournament strategy), then o/8 is an even better game than hold 'em. if you enjoy actually being rewarded for holding a 'good' hand, it's a terrible tournament game. if you dislike the luck factor in a tournament, o/8 is also pretty bad. at some point or another you're going to have to get lucky when all your chips are in the middle, if you want to win any money.

[chaos]

I too am not crazy about most tournament structures. The blinds go up too fast, thereby increasing the luck element. Also you do not make any real money unless you finish close to the top. In tournaments I can play well for hours and still walk away empty handed when someone else gets lucky.

My solution is that I generally do not play in tournaments. I prefer cash games where I can get another shot after someone draws out on me when I have the best hand.

[iblucky4u2]

Jedi,
I play a lot of 50 hand O/8 tournies in Florida. There are several schools of thought - play loose early and if nothing hits sign up for the next one, play tight early so I can be there for the bigger betting round then loosen up, or just play my normal game.
When I play my normal game and don't get any cards or suffer a few bad beats to knock me out, I start to doubt myself and want to try every one else's approach. What works best for me is when I play tight in the early positions and loosen up as I get closer to the button. Then, when I can, get really aggressive, especially on the bigger betting round(s). This type of play gets me into the money quite frequently and shows an overall profit. Like any form of poker, I hit dry streaks and wet streaks. There is a greater luck factor in sit n goes or limited hand tournies than others, but play good poker and you will get good results IN THE LONG RUN. Don't be swayed by any short term results.

[jedi]

Addendum to anyone who really cares.

So, I get into another O/8 SnG at Party last night. The first hand, I'm dealt pocket aces, with another suited card. I hit an Ace on the flop, make a baby flush on the turn, and lose to a higher flush when no board card pairs. I basically go on tilt for the next orbit getting my orignal 800 stack to under 500. I figure I'm done for the tournament and I should just lose and move on to the next one or just take a break. Well, I start playing more tight, but when I'm in a pot I'm much more agressive. I 3/4 a pot when my A278 catches the 456 for nut-nut. Some other guy with the other 78 is raising all the way. Eventually I somehow become the chip leader and go into extremely tight mode and when it gets down to 4 I have over half the chips. After making the money and getting heads up, I play like a maniac, trying to put pressure on the other guy with raises any time I enter a hand voluntarily. I occasionally win pots with nothing when he folds. The move backfires when he scoops a big pot, sending me to a short stack of 2000 vs. 6000, but somehow I pick him off here and there and wind up winning.

I think I'll keep on playing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]