Season #2 WPT- Notes from Ladies Night show- SPOILERS!

[Easy E]

World Poker Tour “Ladies Night” at the Bicycle in L.A.

After the last few weeks of poor television tournaments, I was looking forward to all of the WPT zaniness again- yes, even Vince! The new set, assuming that is the new set, was interesting. Going for a more subdued look? Seems as if they’ve tuned down the music and the lighting…?

So, will this be a precursor of the new WPT season in March 2004? Will commercials still occur every 10 minutes or so? The bios? The Vince over the top comments? Mike’s hand gestures? We KNOW Shana’s not going anywhere- her numbers are probably higher than anyone else’s!

What happened to Linda Johnson announcing the action on the floor? (oh, I saw her later on)

Did they tell the women to dress up and only half of them, the supposedly second-tier women pros, decided to do so? Annie, do something with that hair and take Kathy with you! Guess you keep it simple to not deal with it? Any correlation between looking good and playing good? Pokerbabe? The favorites are the worst-dressed…

Clonie makes a standard? or nice? double-check with the trip Jacks.. but shouldn’t Jen have picked up on the overacting, since she did it in Aruba last year with the Aces? And does she really think Jen caught the flush on the river, or is that just safer since Jen probably won’t call a river bet of any size unless she’s winners?

The four Queens graphic- maybe they can sell it to Bravo after this show and Bravo can improve on their programming with the “Queer hand for the Straight-holdin’ Man” tournament…… never mind.

Nice power move by Annie with the Q9off power reraise of 120K back over the top of Kathy, making Kathy lay down. That seemed preplanned for some reason to me…
…. and now Kathy puts on the sunglasses??? BOOOOOOO!!!!!

It seemed that everyone was emboldened by Maureen’s play, taking turns running her off of hands that weren’t the best. She should have picked up on it and changed her play? Or are too many hands missing to get that read?
I thought Jen’s small raise preflop and relatively small 40K bet on the flop, then showing the QQ, was based on keeping Maureen folding early when players would go after her…. Anyone else?

I thought Mike Sexton’s criticism of Jen’s limp with 77 in the blinds, after 3 other players limped in, was incorrect. Does anyone else agree with Mike that most players would have raised here, unless you are up against weak players who are limping with crap? The hands weren’t great- T9c, QTh, KJd- especially since they crippled each other somewhat, but should you usually raise a middle pair here? What happens if someone comes over the top again, like Annie showed that she would do? Granted, she probably wouldn’t do it here on a bluff and therefore wouldn’t do it with T9suited…

Vince’s first silly comment of the new season “Annie Duke- the Gus Hansen of the ladies” ….but nothing that he said tonight bothered me that much. Does that mean that he changed his act somewhat after last year’s torrent of abuse? Am I just coming to appreciate VVP more, given Jessie May and some of the other “color” announcers we’ve seen lately? Am I mellowing in my old age??

I was a little curious about Annie’s comment about women “having” to play differently than a man plays…. Has to, or chooses to in order to take advantage? She hinted at the latter definition later, but I didn’t like the “women are inferior” connotation… or maybe I still have Mike Caro’s article on my brain.

Antes 1500, blinds 6K/12K. Is that a good ratio, 6 handed, by the way? About 1:10 vs the big blind:? I was surprised Annie dumped QTd at this point, given some of her other play, but she was up front. Does up front have as much importance, when NL and shorthanded? I guess at a tougher average table, it does…
Kathy’s “the Jaws of all poker hands” (VVP, you must be getting comfortable again) only brings a 24K raise, which Jen Harmon calls with 99 from the SB… and Evelyn calls the raise as well with J7c? Pot odds call? Big blind call?
When the 243 flops and Jen sees Kathy come over here 60K bet all-in…. and SAYS “It smells like Aces to me” trying to get a read… and then CALLS?? Of course, it was only 70K more, but still…. Is that an automatic call here for Jen?

Who the HELL was that guy selling the World Poker Holdem video for $20??

And now here’s Kathy Liebert making what seemed to me a comment making women poker players second-tier- “women can make money playing poker and be successful”- maybe I’m just overly sensitive to this lately (any votes, UPF?), but it sounded wrong to me.

Maureen calls with T8off in the SB…. And I KNOW a raise from Jen is coming, unless she has nothing. A4off…. Raise 76K, goodbye Maureen again. Anyone who actually saw this match, or who knows the actual flow of hands at the match, can you tell me if it was as obvious potentially in real life as it was on television? Should Maureen have picked up on this, or is TV distorting it too much?

OHMYGOD! We’ve just discovered one person who is destined to lose- Annie, how could you fold PRESTO! ??!?! It was only 84K all-in from Jen! The Gods of the Golden Hand will punish you for your insanity!

Will the next newbie wave (whether it’s mostly women, or anyone from WPT wave #2) feature people trying to all master the finger flick folding move that all of the women pros were displaying? How were they selected, anyway- anyone know? Annie, Jen and Kathy were obvious, as was Maureen evidently based on her record over the year…. plus her WPT showings last year. How did Clonie and Evelyn get selected?

A “Players’ Lounge”??? Who stole from who- Bravo or WPT? Now THIS one really DID look like a “Losers Lounge”- WPT, dump this lounge- you didn’t get anything worthwhile out of it… well, except for Jen’s glare at Kathy and the “don’t TALK about Aces!”

Antes 3K, blinds 15/30K. AJoff goes all-in, Kathy calls immediately? with AT for 181K? what the heck was THAT move?

I was surprised that Annie then folded the Q5off on the button- did she know that short-stacked Maureen was going to have to play this hand almost regardless of what she had? Maureen, time to burn that “lucky” teddy bear!

Annie, feeling pretty good with 783K vs 465K and 252K?? You’ve forgotten what you did to yourself earlier, angering the Gods of the Hand of Hands… you’re doomed. Besides, VVP picked you- that’s like fading scalf’s NFL picks! J You have no chance!

Mike’s comment that Evelyn was “pot committed” when Annie raised to 90K and Evelyn had A9s in the blind- is this really correct? It was only 76K more to call- was Mike basing this comment on the hand, or the blind?

Daniel N- SIT DOWN! How much of this is anti-Annie Duke celebrating? Oh, you have a past with Evelyn? You DUMPED her as a teenager? Nice move…. Is that an example of “oil and water (two poker players) don’t mix”?

Talk about déjà vu! Clonie raises 75K with 33, Evelyn goes all-in with KQoff…. They’ve been possessed by the 2003 WSOP!! But this time, Chris Moneymaker folds the 33!! Let’s start the argument again- should Clonie have folded here?

I don’t notice the WPT doing hand-advantage percentages. Am I forgetting that they never did that on occasion, or did they drop it?

What was Clonie doing calling Annie’s 100K raise with J7h? Was she foolishly playing the rush she was on, or did she pick up something from Mrs. Duke? She was lucky with the flop, but she made a strong move on the flop going all-in over the top to take it.
Later, Annie bets 1/3 of her stack on K6off. Smart move, 3-handed, or was she steaming about folding Presto! earlier?
Mike, you should have mentioned that the 3 of diamonds on the turn did not make any difference in the hand, even though it paired Clonie. She was already ahead and didn’t need the second pair.

I was disappointed that Annie didn’t show better sportsmanship immediately, after busting out with the TT (hmmm…. twice Presto!, Annie…. the gods are sending you a final message!) and making Clonie hunt her down to shake her hand.. but she had to be disappointed in herself.

I can’t decide if the raining money was stupid or clever- probably stupid, since they had to delay the game to clean it up!

Evelyn limps with AA and 653k in chips…. and Clonie goes all-in with 44?? Is this a power move, trying to slow Evelyn down after she had started building her stack up? Or does it make sense to do this with any pair and A-big hands? I thought the chips were too close to make this kind of power move- thoughts?
Now Clonie puts on the sunglasses- watch out, that’s what Kathy did and she’s in the Losers Lounge! I was a little surprised by the all-in with K5s, but I guess she has to make some moves to overcome the 7:1 chip deficiency.

I’m getting really excited now. Clonie’s all-in, it’s only 10:43…. Could the WPT have changed the 10:58 rule to trip us up? Nope, Clonie catches the gutshot wheel with her Ace…. Darn!
Crazy pot, when Chonie catches the Ace against Evelyn’s 77 on the turn, then the Jack comes to split the pot.

One thought- should they show more of the dealer’s action, running the game and moving the players along, so that newbies will become more familiar with casino game play? Not TOO much, of course- but they’re showing everything else under the sun with the bio pieces and such…. Or am I daffy?

Mike’s comment about Evelyn calling preflop and then making a strong move with Q6suited as being a “bold move with nothing” was silly- the board was pretty much nothing!

I thought Annie played well early, but wasn’t sure about some of her play at the end. Clonie was helped out by flops and straight catches a fair amount. Maureen wasn’t reading the actions properly, Kathy made a big immediate call that crippled her. Not sure how I felt about Jen and Evelyn’s play.

What were they playing for, anyway? Did they ever give the prize structure?

Signing off,
Easy E

[TimTimSalabim]

I know I'm going to come off sounding like a mysogynist (damn thats a hard word to spell), but I think that was some of the worst no-limit play I've ever seen on TV. Move in, move in, move in. Can none of them play a flop?

[M2d]

[ QUOTE ]
What were they playing for, anyway? Did they ever give the prize structure?

[/ QUOTE ]

according to the wpt website, they were playing for "bragging rights" and a seat in the championship (25K)

[theBruiser500]

There wasn't a lot of flop action because the blinds were so high. Also, I kept hearing Sexton announce an increase in the blinds so this leads me to believe that a lot of hands were left out...

I thought Annie played well. Evelyn made a very good call against Annie at the end with A3.

Clonie was awful, she kept getting lucky. She called Annie Duke's huge bet with J7? That was retarded. More than anything though, I couldn't stand how she kept getting up to celebrate waving her arms in the air. She's a stupid jerk. I enjoyed Annie Duke's comment in the lounge, "If I had to predict the final two, it would be them."

I remember reading something on recpoker from Daniel Negraneu insulting Annie Duke, and EasyE just brought this up too, what happened between them two?

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
but I think that was some of the worst no-limit play I've ever seen on TV.

[/ QUOTE ]

It basically played out like an online sit-n-go. By the end the blinds were so high that it didn't take much at all to get pot committed.

After watching the Bravo Celebrity crap, this seemed like top notch stuff to me. Certainly has me looking foward to the start of the new season.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
There wasn't a lot of flop action because the blinds were so high. Also, I kept hearing Sexton announce an increase in the blinds so this leads me to believe that a lot of hands were left out...

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling we didn't miss as many hands as you may think. I wouldn't doubt it if the blinds were going up fairly quickly compared to a normal tourney. At the end the blinds were 25K/50K and they started at 1K/2K (or less). Thats a lot of levels.

[Clarkmeister]

"Vince’s first silly comment of the new season “Annie Duke- the Gus Hansen of the ladies” ….but nothing that he said tonight bothered me that much. "

I never watched the show before tonight but he did say one thing that bothered me. I don't recall the two women the following quote referred to, but after one hand he said something along the lines of "(the winner) is absoultely violating (the loser) in every way right now"

I thought the comment was WAY out of line, innappropriate and I was shocked it made it out of the editing room.

[Daliman]

It was pretty obvious you were the class of the field, but with the blinds & antes so high at 3 handed, it was very easy to get pot commited as you did. Laying down those 5's vs. Jennifer's first all in w/ 88 was great, I thought, and a play that most call with there. I'm sure you do call if you're closing action, but most call anyways and slough off chips. The RR w/ Q9 vs Kathy's 77 RR was masterful, knowing kathy will lay down all but QQ-AA and MAYBE AK. I really thought you and Kathy were the best NL tourney players there and that you'd get heads up,(I haven't seen her play too much, but it doesn't seem to me Jen's NEAR the tourney player that she is cash player.; how can she call those 9's after SAYING "Smells like Aces"??? I'm STILL wondering what she thought Kathy had that she had beat with those 9's....) Kathy's near immediate call vs Clonie with ATo shocked me; I can't belive she called off that many chips with that weak a hand. Hard to imagine she put clonie on a steal, and even still, I know Kathy's a top tourney player, but that was just plain bad. We all have our mistakes. Seems to me the final 2, while decent enough players, were mainly there as eye candy. You, Jen and Kathy are obvious choices, Maureen seemed only to be chosen because of her appearance on the PPM, but maybe i'm wrong about that, but Clonie seemed only to get in because she probably got a lot of fan mail from her near-miss getting to the final table earlier in the year on WPT. And the other girl i have NO idea why she rated, unless she's an unknown high level player, but methinks other qualities were responsible. Thier play when heads up showed their lack of experience, in my opinion, capped by the canadian girl's all-in preflop with Q8o when a simple 250-300K raise would have accomplished the same thing w/o the exposure. The 44 all-in after what seemed like an obvious"please raise me limp" was whelming also. I really think some deserving women such as Cyndy Violette, Barbara Enright,(does she still play?) and maybe Susie Isaacs or someone else would have been better choices, but alas, sex sells. Congrats on the excellent performance, if not the excellent result.

[Aceshigh7]

[ QUOTE ]
"Vince’s first silly comment of the new season “Annie Duke- the Gus Hansen of the ladies” ….but nothing that he said tonight bothered me that much. "

I never watched the show before tonight but he did say one thing that bothered me. I don't recall the two women the following quote referred to, but after one hand he said something along the lines of "(the winner) is absoultely violating (the loser) in every way right now"

I thought the comment was WAY out of line, innappropriate and I was shocked it made it out of the editing room.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sheesh, are you really that politically correct?

I like Vince Van Patten and his remarks are funny. If people find them offensive I would say they are wound a bit too tight.

[Easy E]

would that change the required tactics, assuming only one prize (no money, just the WPT tokens), enough to make some of the marginal moves more intelligent?

Anyone?