The AA raise/call debate

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Recently I've had a few discussions on and off-line with other posters about my being so adamant about playing AA like a monkey preflop. I did agree in one offline discussion to consider opportunities to not do this. Hence, the following situation:

3/6 Party last night. Pretty loose-passive table. I get AA on the button. 3 limpers to me and as the action is coming my way I start to think that maybe this time I'll just call. Then the boxes pop up and as usual, I raise. It's called all around. (6 players, 12 sb)

Flop comes QJ9 rainbow.

SB bets, BB calls, 2 limpers fold, MP raises, I think for a second and wave bye-bye to my aces (SB now 3-bets making me feel better)

Yadda-yadda a couple of bricks fall and SB takes it down with T8o for the flopped str8.

I start to think. If I had just called preflop, I wouldn't have given as much credit to the bet, call and raise on the flop as I did, and knowing myself, would likely have 3-bet.

In this case, playing my AA like a monkey preflop saved me money.

As an aside, I'm still willing to try not raising with AA in situations where I get to act first post-flop, so my mind is still open.

Thoughts?

[LivingLegend58]

I hate throwing away aces, but in your situation i would have still raised.

[Mike Gallo]

As an aside, I'm still willing to try not raising with AA in situations where I get to act first post-flop, so my mind is still open.

I limped UTG with Aces a few weeks ago in a $4-$8 game at Foxwoods. Someone raised from mid position and I did not reraise.

I flopped a set of aces and turned a boat.

Oh, I got paid off on the river, even though I bet the flop called a raise on the flop and check raised the turn.

[MRBAA]

I'd raise 'em everytime on the button, cap if it came back and go as many bets as my opponent wants if it's head up (this happened once at Mohegan Sun 3-6, I think I went 7 bets with someone who had QQ preflop).

In my opinion, the only reason not to raise with aces preflop is when you are in EP and may be able to limp reraise and trap the field.

[J.R.]

I think the only justifications for calling with AA preflop are:

1) first in preflop in early position when:

a) you expect a raise behind when you limp but
b) also expect others to fold if you open raise and
c) you will 3-bet when raised.

It may be better to just open-raise more hands in EP but its nice to get a pot 3-bet a couple of ways with AA.

2) you open-raise and are 3-bet by a reasonably tight, straight-forward player who won't 5-bet you without the other AA (if no 4 bet cap), leaving you heads'up and facing a call/re-raise situation, preferably with position (I rarely make this play without position). It may be correct to not re-raise if the other player will assume they have the bigger pair/best hand and grossly overplay their hand post-flop, but will shut down if you re-raise preflop.

3) open button/cutoff limping against LAG types in the blinds or on the button who don't have alarm bells that get set off by a tight, tough player open-limping in LP. Then again, these are the folks who will probably 3-bet your open-raise anyway so limping is probably not a very good play in this situation either.


Once somebody else limps I think overlimping with AA is out of the question, both from an intial EV perspective and a "how to play post-flop when my bets/raises are with a hand of disguised strength so its harder to read my opponent's reactions" perspective, as you alluded to.

[Nottom]

Aside from the rare limp-reraise attempt (that always fails) the only time I usually call with AA is when its heads up and I've been 3-bet. Always seem to get a bit more action post flop if you don't cap.

[slavic]

read and reread this one folks.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate throwing away aces, but in your situation i would have still raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

On such a coordinated board with your raise preflop and a be and raise facing you on the flop, you should be able to fold.

Peace,
JT

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I limped UTG with Aces a few weeks ago in a $4-$8 game at Foxwoods. Someone raised from mid position and I did not reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many players saw the flop?

[squiffy]

I sometimes slowplay AA in NL or PL holdem where I hope to make up a lot of cash on the turn and the river. I am not sure it would be worth it to slowplay AA in a 3/6 game.