qq nlhe - i hate min raises

[nicky g]

UB 10c-25c NLHE.

Anyway, here I am, in the Sb with QQ, as usual getting my only good hands in the worst possible position (sorry, having a bad day [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]). The entire table limps to the Button, who min raises. I don't like this. I have no idea what his min raise means and I'm being driven into the entire table. Nevertheless I put in a big raise to 5 bucks hoping to take it down. All fold to the button who calls. Flop is J 8 4 rainbow. Now what? There's a ten dollar pot and we both have about 20 left. He seems pretty passive, not particularly loose. That's all I've got on him so far. I hate this kind of situation.

[Zag]

I both love and hate them. I love the minimum raises because you can be pretty sure that the person making them is an idiot. I hate them because you can't know exactly what species of idiot he is. I also hate them because they invariably happen just after I have made a loose limp, and they open up the betting for a real player to raise big.

Anyway, I love your raise. You have successfully isolated a known idiot. If this is the sub-species which makes the minimum raise with AA/KK, then you'll probably find out right away when he reraises (and you just let it go). You will occasionally find someone reraising here with JJ (or even worse!) and you'll feel bad about the laydown, but you shouldn't.

Since he just called, he probably isn't the subspecies mentioned, or maybe he is but he is trying to be tricksy. This is, of course, yet another case where knowing your opponent is especially valuable. There are definitely opponents with which I would be eager to get all in on this flop, and some with which I would be afraid to put in another penny.

Since you only have $20 left, I think you might as well plan to go all in. Therefore bet out a little less than the size of the pot, and either call his raise (which could easily be JT) or bet all in on the turn if he just calls.

If you had a lot more, say, $100, then my strategy would be to check the flop, planning to check-raise. If he reraises, let it go, if he just calls the check-raise, then you would have a tough decision whether or not to bet out on the turn. If he checks behind on the flop, bet out on the turn as long as it isn't an A or K, or maybe even if it is (depending on passivity of opponent).

[Edge34]

Couple ideas: I hate the minimum raisers too, for just that reason, its hard to tell exactly what kind of hand they might be playing (either putting in a raise with a small pair or a low suited ace, or possibly just trapping with a monster). However, since the flop came down only Jack-high, i'd consider the check-raise here. If he checks behind you, you can put him on no overpair and probably not even a jack, then lead out on the turn as long as its not an Ace or King. If he checks behind you with his overpair, he's got a problem because he's playing it far too weakly. And like Zag said, if you check-raise and he RE-raises, you can consider laying it down.

[Fistdantilus]

As Zag said, the person making the min raise is (IMO) 99% of the time a complete idiot. Your raise is excellent, and you get the desired effect. The flop comes perfectly for you as well.

Here's were I disagree with Zag: I don't think there are many people that are being tricksy when they min-raise, I think they are just afraid to bet a real amount. In my experience, min-raisers will call most any bet you make, but not raise you after you have shown strength unless they have a big hand. Therefore, I think it's virtually impossible to put him on a hand. However, you very likely have the best hand here and should feel good about getting it all-in by bet/check-raise before the A or K come down and you have to fold. If he has AA/KK/JJ/88/44, congrats to him.

Fistdantilus

[sketchy1]

i use these min raises all the time in sit n goes on the button. if it's early or middle stages, most people won't make a move on you. the worst that happens is i get called and don't steal the blinds. best possible thing that could happen is either i hit a flop good or i get to steal blinds.

[TylerD]

I have never seen a min raise on the button work in early or middle stages of a SnG, and it rarely works in the later stages.

[Legend27]

I hate minimum raises too preflop, drives me nuts. That's why I minimum raise alot on the button and next to it with 56s and up and pocket pair 99's and below. It's tough for people to put you on a hand and you get paid off alot better when you hit your sets, flushes and straights. Plus, it's a bad idea to let the blinds see the flop for free anyway.

On your hand you played it right, you gotta raise to see where you're at. If he doesn't reraise you there then you're winning. With that flop the only thing you're losing to is a set. I'd go all-in since you're gonna fold on that flop so you mind as well bet it.

[sketchy1]

with morons it can. maybe not the absolute min, but say on truepoker in a SNG with 15-30 blinds, you raise to say 70, you can generally get the blinds if it's been passed to you on the button.

[nicky g]

Thanks to all for the responses. I did more or less what Zag said - bet the pot on the flop. I thought about going all-in as clearly a pot bet would commit me, but I thought there was a better chance he'd call a pot bet on the flop and the rest on the turn with a hand that I'm beating than an all-in. Anyway he called, turn was a rag, I went all-in, he called, his KK won, I gritted my teeth so hard they smashed like that cartoon seen in Kill Bill (OK not really).

I like a checkraise if I think he'll make a reasonable bet on the flop, but if he bets the minimum or check, which he's likely to do, i'm not in a great spot.

I tend to lose a fortune in these situations because, though his play is terrible from his point of view, it's actually the perfect play if he knows exactly what I have (assuming no ace or king flops). He "knows" (he doesn't, of course) I'll fold to a big preflop reraise, and "knows" I'll bet my overpair, and will get most or all of my chips if he just dumbly calls along. I hate these passive players because in these situations they just take my chips, whereas if they put a raise in I'd be able to get away. Of course I imagine I make a lot more off them than I lose to them (I hope!); it's just I win it in increments and lose it in bundles, which is hard on the old consititution.