Ugghhhh.

celiboy · #1 11-28-2005, 06:53 PM

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB raises, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button folds.

Turn: (9 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

Preflop: 3 limpers to me...Thought about folding, but I think calling is OK. Raised behind me - crap.....autocall with everyone coming along for the ride.

Flop: Pretty sure I'm behind, but I have outs

Turn: Now I have a flush draw along with my other outs

River: Got my flush, but with two bets before me I'm probably beat with a higher flush.

Help on all streets.

MrWookie47 · #2 11-28-2005, 06:59 PM

I think the most questionable part of this is the river overcall. On the flop, your thinking isn't totally great. I think there's a great chance you have the best hand, but you could consider waiting to the turn to raise. Once you're at the turn, though, I don't like raising because you can't fold to a 3bet.

mackthefork · #3 11-28-2005, 06:59 PM

You probably have UTG+1 beat, SB seems to have AA or KK probably with the heart but perhaps not, I can't see a lot you can do here really. Rough assed hand, with huge pot odds on every street.

Mack

Songwind · #4 11-28-2005, 07:02 PM

*grunch*
I play the same preflop.

I raise the flop to see where I am. He could be betting out with middle pair for information, etc. His donk bet doesn't tell us much. If he 3-bets, I think I fold the turn unimproved.

I don't much care for your outs to a flush. Once-card flushes made with the T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] just don't seem likely to hold up. If the fourth [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is higher than your T, you have 3 out of 8 cards that make you a loser and all three are likely to have been held on to preflop.

MrWookie47 · #5 11-28-2005, 07:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
*grunch*
I play the same preflop.

I raise the flop to see where I am. He could be betting out with middle pair for information, etc. His donk bet doesn't tell us much. If he 3-bets, I think I fold the turn unimproved.

I don't much care for your outs to a flush. Once-card flushes made with the T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] just don't seem likely to hold up. If the fourth [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is higher than your T, you have 3 out of 8 cards that make you a loser and all three are likely to have been held on to preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that everything I've bolded is quite wrong, and shows a lot of important misunderstandings about the game. Why do you think SB has a middle pair? Why don't you think the 4th nuts will ever take the pot? Why should we fold the turn in a gigantic pot UI when we hold top frickin' pair?

#6 11-28-2005, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I raise the flop to see where I am. He could be betting out with middle pair for information, etc. His donk bet doesn't tell us much. If he 3-bets, I think I fold the turn unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising to me seems to be very wrong......
raising for information in this situation just isn't going to get any results. I think your gonna find out everyone is going to call because they've already committed one to the pot and hopefully someone doesn't 3bet (which would suck).

With the pot size any overcard is going to call and any backdoor flush/straight is going to call.
Your TT doesn't have enough strength to be betting for value
Raise = bad , Call = good , fold = bad

******************
And once you pick up the flush draw I think your in until the end unless some powerful aggression happens. You could be up against high pair or two pair to this point. I just call the river and will probably hate the result most of the time but not enough to give up the big pot for 1 more = 7% of the time I get to be right

#7 11-28-2005, 07:04 PM

Here are my thoughts...looks like a LOT of calling.

Flop: why not raise here? Top pair vs flush and straight draw out there...think you should raise. Maybe SB is pushing through AK here. Use the SB as your partner and hope he three-bets it to force the draws out. Then if you hit your two pair or flush draw, it has a better chance of being good.

Turn: Since two players folded, you can probably just call. Maybe raise here as well? You still have top pair. Again, maybe SB is pushing AK.

River: Must call. Folding for one BB with a flush at 14:1 odds is just stupid IMO. This would be a case of making a disastrous fold if your hand is good (SB may have black Aces, UTG may have top pair/two pair/set w/o a heart, who knows?)

ScottieK

#8 11-28-2005, 10:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: why not raise here? Top pair vs flush and straight draw out there...think you should raise. Maybe SB is pushing through AK here.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you hoping to accomplish with the raise? Are you trying to charge those individuals who are drawing to hand much more powerful than yours?

In this situation I think you already have plenty of people in the pot to outdraw your weak TT - you've only got a decent kicker.

At this point you cant protect your hand, its not strong enough to bet for value and no one is folding. After all the others call your raise it basically ties you to the showdown. Now you'll be stuck to the pot and trying to hit your two pair or trip on the river (You'll wish you could get away from the turn)

#9 11-28-2005, 07:09 PM

Im calling down with this hand. Its is scary that SB raised preflop possibly showing a higher heart than you, but there are 9 weaker cards and only 3 other hearts he may have that might beat you(excluding the Q)

celiboy · #10 11-28-2005, 07:30 PM

Results:

UTG +1 shows J/3 off (Jack of hearts)
SB shows K/K (King of hearts)