Flush draw, huge growing pot.

Buccaneer · #1 11-24-2005, 09:55 AM

Please, no need to comment on my preflop play.

I am interested in my post flop play. Your normal party/empire mix at this level.

I am drawing to the nut flush on the turn. I know my aces are no good and that I am up agains atleast one made hand. I have odds and outs to the flush, straight and trips and think I must play this one to the river. Do you agree or disagree?

River is folded when beat.

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (8.00 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (8 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: (11.00 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, MP2 raises, MP3 3-bets, CO caps, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (31.00 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, CO 3-bets, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 caps, CO calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 47.00 BB.
Results in white below:
MP3 has Jc Kh (a straight, ten to ace.)
CO has 9s Js (a straight, ten to ace.)
UTG+1 has Jh Qc (a straight, ten to ace.)
MP2 has 7d Jd (a straight, ten to ace.)
MP3 wins 11.50 BB.
CO wins 11.50 BB.
UTG+1 wins 11.50 BB.
MP2 wins 11.50 BB.

#2 11-24-2005, 10:45 AM

Wow having to cold-call 4 bets on the turn! The pot is huge, you are getting over 5:1 plus good implied odds, I would make the call. I'd be real concerned if I made my flush but the board paired.

Redd · #3 11-24-2005, 10:54 AM

Cold-calling four on the turn is righteous, but the correct play IMO. You're getting sufficient immediate odds and amazing implied odds on the call.

masse75 · #4 11-24-2005, 10:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow having to cold-call 4 bets on the turn! The pot is huge, you are getting over 5:1 plus good implied odds, I would make the call. I'd be real concerned if I made my flush but the board paired.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd think with having to cold-call a cap, there's at least 1 jack out there and definitely a better ace. Save yourself 4 bets. Action leading into the river makes me think someone already has a straight.

Edit: should have clarified--turn coldcall is correct due to pot size and implied odds. River is an immediate fold.

#5 11-24-2005, 10:56 AM

It might be a good call on the turn, but it's very close at best. You just don't have all the outs you mention. A non- [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Jack means you split the pot 5 ways. An Ace probably means you someone fills up and you lose at least 2 BBs on the river. Your best outs are the spades and you'd rather not see the King.

trigeek08 · #6 11-24-2005, 10:58 AM

Why did you check the trun? Planning on a c/r? That Q does look like an action card, but if a non Q/J spade had fallen, would you have lead out?

Also, unless you think utg+1 MP+2 MP+3 and CO all have jacks, then, IMO, an A only pays someone else off, someone in there has to have a set; your best hope being 2 pair. I would also not be playing to make a straight, 1/2 pot it about the best you can expect here as well.

#7 11-24-2005, 11:02 AM

You have 8 outs to the nuts, and you're getting huge implied odds. If you don't hit the spade on the river, you can fold easily, not having to spend another single bet. If you hit though, your flush is pretty well concealed since there was only a single spade on the flop. A diamond will likely slow down any betting on the river, but with a spade, and all that action on the turn, hopefully there will be a war on the river and you cash big time.

#8 11-24-2005, 11:15 AM

No brainer call, even if we only use 8 pure outs. Enormous impled odds easily justify the call and you'll likely get callers behind you on the turn anyway.

#9 11-24-2005, 11:19 AM

The raise on the flop was a little impetuous, I think: you're very unlikely to drive out any other A against you, since certainly any other A has you outkicked. In fact, that flop was just about as bad a flop as your hand could sustain, and you raised into it. There may be good reasons to do that, but I'm an idiot, and can't imagine what they are.

And I believe other posters suggest a check raise on the turn. I agree.

Aaron W. · #10 11-24-2005, 01:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The raise on the flop was a little impetuous, I think: you're very unlikely to drive out any other A against you, since certainly any other A has you outkicked.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Hero is outkicked, he likely has a number of hidden outs to chop because the board came so high.

The raise is a matter of hand protection (hero happens to be up against a flopped straight this time, but it happens). Gutshots will be getting 11:2 = 5.5:1 to chase their 4 out draws. Compare this to 10:1 if hero just calls.