MP with overcard kicker against LAG

#1 11-21-2005, 05:32 PM

This villain is quite LAG (38%/13%/4,35 after about 100 hands). I think I will call a bet on the flop so I bet out. I might be best despite the number of opponents. SB is unknown and BB is very tight. I really hate the raise though. There is a flush draw and a straight draw on the board. A K would put three to a straight on the board. I call anyway since I think it's reasonably to put villain on a worse J or a draw since he didn't raise preflop. Do you call on the turn? I really don't know. The pot is not big enough if I'm on a draw and I think my hand is too strong to fold to a bluff. Should I try to raise for a free SD? I'm afraid I overplay middle pairs.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

#2 11-21-2005, 05:42 PM

I think your analysis is correct. My guess is:
1. weak Q
2. flush draw into a riv bluff bet
3. Jx, but probably not AJ.

I'm calling the bet & hoping he doesn't show (so I can look up the hand history w/o the table seeing)

tyler_cracker · #3 11-21-2005, 05:44 PM

Once it gets HU, calling down against a LAG is fine. nh.

How many people could possibly be calling the Las Vegas Valley Water District at 1:30 on a Monday that i've been on hold for 20 minutes?

MrWookie47 · #4 11-21-2005, 05:45 PM

This is reasonable. However, I'd like a better postflop read after 100 hands. You should be taking notes about what this guy bets, raises, and shows down.

WalkAmongUs · #5 11-21-2005, 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I will call a bet on the flop so I bet out. I might be best despite the number of opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this principle and its one I think a lot of newer players would do well to remember. However, in this situation you're against 4 other players. I don't think you'll be ahead quite enough times to bet right out. This is a pretty coordinated flop with 2 connecting face cards plus 2 to a flush out there. Also, one of the face cards is an overcard to your pair. I think this devalues your hand enough to make a check > bet.

Had you checked, MP3 would have lead out and you possibly might have gotten enough callers to make a call +EV.

As it is, your bet got you heads up with a hand where you don't really know where you stand. Since villain is so LAG, I'd go ahead and call it down since he may be on a flush draw and just betting it out as a semi-bluff and then bluff on the end.

Edit to say: if you know this guy just bets anything all the way to the river and your flop bet was specifically so he would raise and get you heads up so you can call him down, then NH. This depends on your read.

jrz1972 · #6 11-21-2005, 05:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Should I try to raise for a free SD?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're out of position for this play.

Your line was basically fine. Personally I would have raised preflop and gone from there, but it's not that big a deal.

#7 11-21-2005, 06:30 PM

Maybe a check/fold on teh turn.

Guruman · #8 11-21-2005, 06:50 PM

Is it horrible to threebet this flop once we get HU?

If villain is a big lag he could have any T9s, KTs, a J, a mid pp or a flush draw.

Lag raises into crowds like this tend to either mean "I've got a huge hand and I'm playing it fast" or "I've got a little piece and I want all of you to fold"

by threebetting, we punish his draws when we're ahead and find a way out on the turn when we're behind.

if he just calls, we can lead the turn with confidence. If he caps, we can reevaluate and either check/call the turn and R, or bet/fold the turn.

threebetting and calling a cap plus a bet/fold costs the same as calling down.

Are we really that determined to show this down?

Stealthy · #9 11-21-2005, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is reasonable. However, I'd like a better postflop read after 100 hands. You should be taking notes about what this guy bets, raises, and shows down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't agree with this strongly enough. Whenever I sit down with a LAG at the table I am breaking my neck to see what they are betting, raising and calling with. So many of them will raise a field with as little as bottom pair or ace high or even a gutter. You need to know these things to get proper value from them.

Some of my notes on LAG/Maniacs look like essays but it allows you to play them with such confidence it is well worth it.