Going broke hand???

[dimitrix]

I recently made the jump from limit to No limit. I ran into a hand the other day that Im not sure if going broke can be avoided.

$.50/$1 6 seat max.

Im in BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and around 70 dollars

Folds around to the button who limps. SB folds I raise to $5. Button calls. Flop comes down K59 rainbow. I bet $ 5 and button calls. Turn is A. I bet $12 and button raises me to $30. I reraise all in and button calls. River is a 2 and button shows 55 for a set.
Are these hands unavoidable in NL? Or is there any way i can get away from top 2 pairs? Button had me completely covered.

Well thats an unfortunate turn card for you, and I don't think you can avoid losing a decent of money, but I think you could have lost less. Thats the perfect time to check behind and call the river because there are no real draws out there.

The hands you beat are medium pockets pairs and something like KQs, or maybe even a weaker king from a very loose player.

Most of these hands are scared by the ace and fold out on the turn if you bet significantly. Check behind and try to induce a bluff by looking like you hated the ace. Otherwise the only hands that are really left are hands that beat you (assuming villain is competent - whats your read on him?).

And why not bet near the pot on the flop? The same hands will call I think (people suspective a c-bet, or a slightly weaker king) and you have position so you can control the pot. I'm not too sure on that though, so don't take my word for it.

You can't routinely fold a hand as good as top two in that spot profitably when facing aggression. But you can fold it if you're paying good attention to how players play.

In NL you really need to watch the opponents and learn their tendancies and what they're capable of. Some guys just AREN'T putting in a raise without a minimum of a set there.

You really need to watch their minds states and what has happened in the last few hands and the dynamics of those things as well.

These things are the valuable critical information you need when playing No Limit vs aggression.

[dimitrix]

I was new to the table and didnt have any good reads.. Would checking the turn with top 2 pairs and calling down be alittle weak? Also, does it make a difference that the hand was heads up on the flop. Against multiple players a set might be more believable. But im still unsure if i can get away from my hand.

Being weak is good in this case. Only very weak hands will pay you off, so you have to appear weak. There is no straight or flush possible and at MOST villain has 4 outs to a gutshot if hes behind. So you give up almost no equity checking.

I think if you stop and take a few minutes to think about what villain could given this specific flop texture, checking behind is the best play - you maximize gains from weak hands and minimize losses to monsters.

Unless its been a few orbits and villain has like a 70% vpip or something, in that case just shove it in I guess.

On the other hand, if theres legitimate straight and flush draws out there, then yeah, I think you have to show strength and go broke.

edit: woops, thought positions were reversed. This situation sucks a lot more then, I think arguments still apply though.

[dimitrix]

Ok.. I hit top pair on flop Automatic bet right?
I hit 2 pairs on flop. I dont see how anybody can check here unless tryin to check raise. He showed no strengh. I bet turn and he raised $20. If i call turn, I should be rdy to call river right? There is no way he wasnt gonna put me all in on the river. And i dont think any card couldve came off to make me think differently of my hand.

I dont see how i can check the turn and call down???

[4_2_it]

Bet more on the flop. Turn is a bad card, but I go in to check call mode once I am raised. If I have a read on villain as a normal "tricky" player, then I know TPTK isn't good, but he needs a set to bet my top two pair. I call his river bet and lose here. If you lay down top two every time you get resistance on a dry board you are leaving $$$ on the table.

FYI - Don't post your results as it tends to alter the comments you received. It is easy to see the set when you post the results. You should have stopped the hand at the turn check raise and asked for advice there.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Being weak is good in this case. Only very weak hands will pay you off, so you have to appear weak. There is no straight or flush possible and at MOST villain has 4 outs to a gutshot if hes behind. So you give up almost no equity checking.

I think if you stop and take a few minutes to think about what villain could given this specific flop texture, checking behind is the best play - you maximize gains from weak hands and minimize losses to monsters.

Unless its been a few orbits and villain has like a 70% vpip or something, in that case just shove it in I guess.

On the other hand, if theres legitimate straight and flush draws out there, then yeah, I think you have to show strength and go broke.

edit: woops, thought positions were reversed. This situation sucks a lot more then, I think arguments still apply though.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you play weak you encourage much weaker hand sto bluff you. Top two pair on a dry board is a solid hand that I will need a lock solid read before I am folding.

Don't ever play weak, all you do is allow worse players to move you off hands. At these levels ABC is the most +EV way.