River raise...

krishanleong · #1 11-14-2005, 03:39 PM

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (14 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises

Villian is solid postflop. 30/20 but with good distribution between blind defense, steals, and iso raises.

Krishan

ghostface · #2 11-14-2005, 03:40 PM

Are you gonna get called by a hand you dont at least chop with?

Kimpan · #3 11-14-2005, 03:46 PM

I just call that river..
I don't see many hands that would play like this by a solid that would call a raise..

#4 11-14-2005, 03:50 PM

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I don't know, Krishan, it seems the only entity getting value out of your river raise is Mr. Partypoker and his rake. OK, so you now split the pot with AK instead of losing. And I guess you could make an argument for an overplayed diamond draw that he 3 bet on the turn (?) and is now trying to bluff at on the river. But he won't call you with that anyway so why raise it?

English equivalent of this hand:
Krishan: "Hi I'm going to raise preflop"
Villain: "I 3-bet you. Don't splash the pot."
K: "I will call this flop, because I either have crap or a monster."
K: "I will raise this turn because I either have a king or an eight."
V: "BS. I can beat your king mid-kicker, and you don't have an eight. I 3-bet the turn."
V: "I'm betting this river because I have 8s full of Kings."
K: "I'll raise. I have four eights and you should fold your king."

I think you will be showed TT or JJ here almost never. The only real reason for a river raise is if you put him on 66 for an underful that died a horrible death to the river. But distribution-wise, AA is a lot more likely, and it would suck to be 3-bet here because you can't let this hand go.

Lmn55d · #5 11-14-2005, 04:07 PM

The river raise is big time spewing. You're almost never ahead and when he has one of the seven combinations of hands (AA, KK) that beat you, you lose 2 because you can't fold to a 3bet.

I also prefer a flop raise to a turn raise if you can't fold to the 3bet. You lose less if behind. Raising the turn protects better, but the times you are ahead and button has something worth protecting against dont justify putting 3 BB in on the turn imo. Especially since SB could fold something like AQ/AJ that he might pay off with on the river.

EDIT: Oh, and also 8x now beats you and 6x has two outs instead of 5 (unless it's A6) which means protection against button is less valuable.

krishanleong · #6 11-14-2005, 04:19 PM

Alright. I was just checking up on everyone. I called the river and was shown aces. If you were tempted to raise this river you are a lag.

Krishan