Hero gets out of line in a home game

#1 11-09-2005, 01:18 AM

7-handed .25/.50 25NL home game. The table is very tight preflop, but a lot of these guys don't worry too much about position, and they also don't mind playing easily dominated hands like AJo versus a raise. Primary villain has been raising preflop a LOT, he's probably around 40/25 preflop. He also calls raises (especially from the BB) far more often than he should, and he comments on this. He has been dead for an orbit or so though, and he is moaning about the crap he is getting. He raises the flop occasionally with air, and his postflop aggression is pretty high. Nobody has gotten too far out of line though. I've been making CBs every time I raise preflop, and almost all the time it is folded around. Also it's worth noting that table knows I am "running good", I was poking fun at the table not to mess with me because I had rockets 9 times in 3 hours last night.

Villain has ~$20, Hero has $35 (big stack), the rest of the table varies between 12 and 35.

Hero is the BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG folds. Villain opens for $2. Hand range here I think is almost any two decent paint judging by the amount he is raising. I put him squarely on A K. EP+1 calls. MP (shortstack) calls. These three undoubtedly would have raised with a high PP, and they all probably have high paint. MP probably has SC because he loves playing small SC versus a raise "to try to [censored] someone over" and in a big pot like this he is undoubtedly coming along with anything small and suited and connected =D. MP (and the table) thinks he made a big laydown to my PSB CB on a raised hand where I had air, and of course everyone thinks it was a good laydown.

Hero tanks for about 2 minutes, and announces raise to $8. I think I have the best hand, and I think I am flipping with almost everyone. I fully expect everyone to fold to my aggression with maybe a caller. I am projecting AA/KK loud and clear to everyone. I'm also the big stack and people are staying clear of me.

Villain calls, three cold callers fold.

Flop comes Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero tanks, bets $6. Villain tanks, announces "[censored] it, I gotta see what you have," and moves all-in for $10 more. Hero tanks and decides that his most likely holding is QQ and folds.

First, how terrible is this play given the strength of my reads? Second, do you call? I think villain has QQ, with AA-JJ seconds and AKs maybe 35% of the time.

Malachii · #2 11-09-2005, 01:47 AM

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Hand range here I think is almost any two decent paint cards... I put him squarely on A K.

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Heh, neat trick.

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Hero tanks for about 2 minutes, and announces raise to $8. I think I have the best hand, and I think I am flipping with almost everyone. I fully expect everyone to fold to my aggression with maybe a caller. I am projecting AA/KK loud and clear to everyone. I'm also the big stack and people are staying clear of me.

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This makes me sad. Come on Dustbustr, call and take a flop. Sounds like our LAGish friend isn't folding much to your reraise anyways.
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Flop comes Q 2 4. Hero tanks, bets $6. Villain tanks, announces "[censored] it, I gotta see what you have," and moves all-in for $10 more. Hero tanks and decides that his most likely holding is QQ and folds

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I agree, you probably have to fold here. Depends on the pot odds, how often does he have to be bluffing here for your call to be profitable? I don't feel like doing the math and I don't know your friend and the % chance he's pushing two overs, so I can't help you here.

Your postflop line is good. I don't like the reraise with 99. I'd call, maybe check/fold the flop or just lead out and shutdown if I get played with.

orange · #3 11-09-2005, 01:59 AM

flat call PF.

c/f flop.

#4 11-09-2005, 02:17 AM

Does anyone think an iso-raise is appropriate at all here? So far everyone seems to think the pf raise is chip spewage, if that is so, I don't understand why there is no EV to be found in this situation.

#5 11-09-2005, 02:22 AM

Decreasing your bet on the flop is a supreme sign of weakness. You wouldn't do that with AA or KK would you? Its a push or check fold type deal imo.

amoeba · #6 11-09-2005, 02:23 AM

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Does anyone think an iso-raise is appropriate at all here? So far everyone seems to think the pf raise is chip spewage, if that is so, I don't understand why there is no EV to be found in this situation.

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why do you want to isolate? I don't mind playing 99 in a multiway raised pot for set value. also, if villain pushes you are put in to tough tough situation. if you have no read on villain's 3 bet proclivities and hands that he folds, raising 99 here is no good. you would need him to fold a lot of hands to make this raise worth it.

#7 11-09-2005, 02:25 AM

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Does anyone think an iso-raise is appropriate at all here? So far everyone seems to think the pf raise is chip spewage, if that is so, I don't understand why there is no EV to be found in this situation.

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I wouldn't go as far to say spewage, but your OOP against a LAG with a pair that is vulnerable to many flops. In position, this makes alot more sense.

#8 11-09-2005, 02:30 AM

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Decreasing your bet on the flop is a supreme sign of weakness. You wouldn't do that with AA or KK would you? Its a push or check fold type deal imo.

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Agreed, this post is from memory from a few hours ago, and I think I made it 8 on the flop, which is 4xBB bigger than my raise preflop (raise of $6 on top of the $2 needed to call).

My reasoning for not betting larger than this was that I wanted to be able to get away if villain came over the top. I tend to get myself pot committed (mentally if not actually) and I can be a bit of a station at times.

Do you think a slightly larger bet has more FE? I'm not convinced that it makes a difference.

#9 11-09-2005, 02:32 AM

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why do you want to isolate? I don't mind playing 99 in a multiway raised pot for set value. also, if villain pushes you are put in to tough tough situation. if you have no read on villain's 3 bet proclivities and hands that he folds, raising 99 here is no good. you would need him to fold a lot of hands to make this raise worth it.

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Because I don't want to win this pot 1 in 5 times, I want to win this pot right now. Perhaps this reasoning is flawed and I am misapplying what DS says in SSHE?

amoeba · #10 11-09-2005, 02:39 AM

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why do you want to isolate? I don't mind playing 99 in a multiway raised pot for set value. also, if villain pushes you are put in to tough tough situation. if you have no read on villain's 3 bet proclivities and hands that he folds, raising 99 here is no good. you would need him to fold a lot of hands to make this raise worth it.

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Because I don't want to win this pot 1 in 5 times, I want to win this pot right now. Perhaps this reasoning is flawed and I am misapplying what DS says in SSHE?

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how much is the pot that you win when you play for set value, how big is the pot that you win when you win it right now?

also, how do you know you win it right now? thats my whole point.

even though you put him on AK, you seemed to change your read once the flop came. nothing wrong with reevaulating but perhaps your preflop reads aren't as accurate as you think they are.

I mean your preflop raise when you really think about it is really a bluff against villain's handrange, yes?

and sshe is a limit book. raising 99 in limit is fine but this situation is very different.