KK hand

nietzreznor · #1 11-10-2005, 01:59 PM

Pokerstars 2/4, 6 handed

I am MP with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG folds, I raise to $15, Button makes it $25 on top, folds back to me, I call.

Button is a 2+2er whose play I respect. He starts with $390, I cover.

Flop ($80): 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I c/c his $66 bet.

Turn ($200): 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I...

a) how's my play so far?

b) what's my play on the turn?

beavens · #2 11-10-2005, 02:03 PM

my gut says to pot or push the turn, but for some reason i feel wrong.

#3 11-10-2005, 02:06 PM

I push this preflop, but I am very LAG so it pays off much more than it hurts.

In this situation, I push the flop. If he has AA, and has me beat, I move on.

nietzreznor · #4 11-10-2005, 05:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I push this preflop, but I am very LAG so it pays off much more than it hurts.

In this situation, I push the flop. If he has AA, and has me beat, I move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

My image isn't LAG enough to push this preflop--I think if I do, I'm only getting called my AA and maybe KK, at least against this opponent.

As for pushing the flop--do you mean opening pushing, or a c/r all-in? Open pushing seems like to much of an overbet, it probably doesn't fold out AA but probably lets QQ-TT off too easy. And I don't get a cont bet from AK or whatever.
A c/r all-in is something I considered. I'd be interested to your (or anyone's) thoughts on why this might be a better line.

nietzreznor · #5 11-10-2005, 05:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
my gut says to pot or push the turn, but for some reason i feel wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

My gut says that this is may be a better line than the one i took, but I'm interested in why you think so.
If I push the turn, what do you think he does with QQ/JJ, no hearts? What about QQ/JJ with a heart? And what about AA?

And which of these does he bet with if I check?

beavens · #6 11-10-2005, 05:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my gut says to pot or push the turn, but for some reason i feel wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

My gut says that this is may be a better line than the one i took, but I'm interested in why you think so.
If I push the turn, what do you think he does with QQ/JJ, no hearts? What about QQ/JJ with a heart? And what about AA?

And which of these does he bet with if I check?

[/ QUOTE ]

if he's a good player then he'll probably fold QQ/JJ.. (forgot what the pot is, so i cant comment on the heart situation, but with only one card to see, and not the best flush i don't see them calling even with a heart)

AA would be a call in a heartbeat with or without a heart. if this happens then gh, move on.

if you check i see him attacking the pot with any of those overpairs.

ajmargarine · #7 11-10-2005, 05:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A c/r all-in is something I considered. I'd be interested to your (or anyone's) thoughts on why this might be a better line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if he is a 2+2'er and knows you to be one as well, he knows some of the "fringe elements" [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] of this board would push a draw in this situation. And if he has 99-QQ, he may just look you up. That turn heart has the potential to kill action, as do a bunch of the other middle straight cards.

(Plus, what kind of 2+2'er minraises like that preflop??? That's an isolation raise, not a raise with AA there. IMO, his most likely hand is an AK/AQ type hand)

nietzreznor · #8 11-10-2005, 05:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Because if he is a 2+2'er and knows you to be one as well, he knows some of the "fringe elements" of this board would push a draw in this situation. And if he has 99-QQ, he may just look you up. That turn heart has the potential to kill action, as do a bunch of the other middle straight cards.

(Plus, what kind of 2+2'er minraises like that preflop??? That's an isolation raise, not a raise with AA there. IMO, his most likely hand is an AK/AQ type hand)

[/ QUOTE ]

excellent points. I think I should've given more consideration to this line.

As for his reraise: well, it's not exactly a minraise, but it was a little small... wasn't really sure what to make of it, if he just raises a little less when in position, or if he was isolating, or trapping with AA

4_2_it · #9 11-10-2005, 05:27 PM

I push that turn. Villain only has about the pot left in his stack and I'm getting it in now. You folding if villain puts his stack in so put the decision on him. As long as he does not have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] you are drawing live.

nietzreznor · #10 11-10-2005, 08:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I push that turn. Villain only has about the pot left in his stack and I'm getting it in now. You folding if villain puts his stack in so put the decision on him. As long as he does not have the A you are drawing live.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think pushing turn is probably best, at least given how I got there. Since it is unlikley I already have the flush, I think I can still get calls from some hands I'm beating.

You're folding if you check? You might be right, but my thinking was that it was possible a QQ/JJ type hand w/o a heart may stick it in to keep me from seeing a free heart. The more I think about it though, I'm not sure what hand that would be. I certainly don't have A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K here, since I called the flop, and AhKh already hit... only thing to protect against would be a mid PP with a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]...