River Bluff/Raise

[bnorthro]

Just played this hand. PokerRoom $2/4 5max table, really really loose/passive.

Button is a passive fish, the SB is a rock, like 9%/9% over about 30 hands. He could just be getting cold decked. I figured on this passive table, I would be safe to limp from UTG - but it's definitely debateable. There hadn't been a whole lot of PFR'ing other than me.

Sorry for the format, kinda did it by hand.

PokerRoom 2/4 Hold'em (4 Handed)

Seat 5: Hero [ 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
ANTES/BLINDS
SB posts blind ($1), BB posts blind ($2).

PRE-FLOP
Hero calls $2, Fishy calls $2, Rock bets $3, BB folds, Hero calls $2, Fishy calls $2.

FLOP [board cards 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
Rock bets $2, Hero calls $2, Fishy folds.

TURN [board cards 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ]
rock bets $4, Hero calls $4.

RIVER [board cards 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ]
Rock bets $4, <font color="red"> Hero raises $8.... </font>

<font color="blue"> My image was probably pretty aggressive, and I'd shown down some winners and taken down quite a few pots uncontested. I had a sweet draw on the flop. I was planning on check/raising it if the fish donked, and calling if the rock bet. I still had good odds on my draw on the turn.

On the river, the only way I can win is a raise. This guy was pretty weak/tight, so I felt there was a good chance of him folding UI overs, plus it's a pretty scary board.

This is obviously really read dependent and table dependent, but was it a poor play? I'm starting to try and take advantage of these types of situtations more.

Thanks. </font>

[admiralfluff]

Fold preflop. I don't think it's debateable. For a rock to 3 barrel into you, he probably has a strong hand and will not fold for one more bet on the river. I would raise the flop for a free turn.

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he isn't very weak-tight,there is no use in your bluff-raise.

[Surfbullet]

hey bnorthro,

I really don't like the open-limp, especially 4handed. Suited connectors etc were great to open-limp with at table full of fishes, but you don't get the implied odds/ family pots that you need shorthanded. Fold preflop.

I like the flop + turn. I don't like the river much at all. First off - what hand are you representing? The 2 is the safest card in the deck for a hand like AK or JJ.

Additionally, our "weak-tight" rock has to have bet all 3 postflop streets with an unimproved overcard hand to give this a shot at working. He then has to fold it to a very suspicious river raise in a big pot. I don't think this happens. If you had a straight draw, and the flush card came in, then you have something to work with in terms of representing a hand. Bluffs that don't make sense often get called for precisely that reason.

Surf

[RiverTheNuts]

think about it from rock's perspective, with a board that drawy, dont you think he woulda heard from you earlier with a 9?? Personally, to a thinking player this looks like a busted draw, I would probably call this down with ace high.
That said, no thinking player bets overcards on all 3 streets... basically, he has a pair, and he will be calling this raise unless he's phil hellmuth.

[jt1]

I don't understand the fold pre-flop advice. I'm raising and to me it's not even close. (though, I think foldig is better than calling)

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand the fold pre-flop advice. I'm raising and to me it's not even close. (though, I think foldig is better than calling)

[/ QUOTE ]

At a "really really loose passive" game you are going to end up paying 2 bets preflop (which wrecks your implied odds) often OOP(when button coldcalls) and with near-useless initiative against opponents who call too much postflop.

Just fold. You have to play a value game against these guys.

Surf

Raising for a freecard for your flush draw when the board is paired can be beneficial sometimes. You will often get the freecard, and depending on the opponent, you might fold him right there.

[RunDownHouse]

If you're going to bluff anywhere, make it a turn semi-bluff.

[EvanJC]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to bluff anywhere, make it a turn semi-bluff.



[/ QUOTE ]

yeah that. also, fold preflop. or raise, if you're feeling like a wild man. calling is bad