Calling with Q-high?

kapw7 · #1 11-05-2005, 04:19 PM

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Villain is 52/13 not overly agressive - not passive.

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Raise the turn here? I didn't like it since he is not folding a small pair or a draw

River: (5.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

I missed my draw but maybe he did as well. I could maybe bluff- raise a tough player but it can't work against this guy. So I call with Q-high...

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

SoftcoreRevolt · #2 11-05-2005, 04:24 PM

On the river you have the Nut Queen High. Even if villain has one spade, his betting will most often be a King or ACE OF SPADES, which beats you. Any pocket beats you. Any piece of the board beats you. Add to that the fact you say he isn't overly aggressive, how in the hell do you see Queen High being good here 1 in 6 times?

tyler_cracker · #3 11-05-2005, 05:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
how in the hell do you see Queen High being good here 1 in 6 times?

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kapw7 · #4 11-05-2005, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On the river you have the Nut Queen High. Even if villain has one spade, his betting will most often be a King or ACE OF SPADES, which beats you. Any pocket beats you. Any piece of the board beats you. Add to that the fact you say he isn't overly aggressive, how in the hell do you see Queen High being good here 1 in 6 times?

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He is very loose pre-flop so he can call with almost any 2 cards. By "not overly agressive" I mean not maniac. He can be playing ANY Tx or 8x or ANY spade. I think I can be good more than 1 in 6 times here. I would be more worried if he just checked (meaning I would never bluff bet this river)

LoaferGee12 · #5 11-05-2005, 05:30 PM

I like your thinking, due to the monotone flop. However, I think most of the betting they will be doing will either be the A or K of spades, or a small pair. Give me A-hi and I'm calling this.

#6 11-05-2005, 05:34 PM

Grunch:

From UTG I wouldnt be calling or raising with QTo. That seems like spewing to me. Flop comes spades, you got an inside straight draw, 4 outs. I'm folding to SB's bet here, pot odds are not right to call. Even if you make your straight, you still may not have the nuts. Fold this hand.

Redd · #7 11-05-2005, 05:37 PM

IMO calling here is ludicrous. There's no way he has <=10-high 1 time in 6.

kapw7 · #8 11-05-2005, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch:

From UTG I wouldnt be calling or raising with QTo. That seems like spewing to me. Flop comes spades, you got an inside straight draw, 4 outs. I'm folding to SB's bet here, pot odds are not right to call. Even if you make your straight, you still may not have the nuts. Fold this hand.

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Playing QTo UTG is fine 4-handed
If he had a big hand (that is flush/straight) he would (more lkely) slowplay that. His donk bet means he's (more likely) trying to push me out of the pot and so it's a small pair or (any) draw. Folding the flop or turn would be wrong as I can be ahead or drawing to a straight or a pair of Qs or even a pair of Ts (better kicker). For the river call see above.

#9 11-05-2005, 05:51 PM

On the flop you should either fold or raise. Folding is not so bad. You could easily be drawing dead and it will cost you 5 small bets to find out if you adopt a call, call, call line so in reality you have to think you are getting about even odds. Not near enough to call.

Raising may be an alternative on the flop. If Villian fires back a raise you can figure he has a close to the nut flush (I suppose he might 3-bet also if he has the single A, K, Q or T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] as well) or even possibly 8T, in which case you can safely fold (presumably he sees the 3 spades on board as well). If he just calls you might get a free card on the turn either because he is slow-played his nut flush in the face of your raise and now will check/raise the turn or because he fears you may have him beat.

Getting back to your game and the turn. With just 4.5BBs in the pot you have a marginal call here as your spade outs are crippled. You have 2 Qs that will give you top pair and 3 8s and 3 Ks that will give you a fairly good straight, so 8 outs for about a 4.7:1 shot. A fold might be in order here. A raise is too expensive and one round too late.

IMHO, calling on the river (at 6.5:1) is probably a mistake but a small mistake compared to the mistakes made on the earlier streets.

TheKentock · #10 11-05-2005, 05:54 PM

Firstly, he is UTG in a 4-handed game. this is equivalent to the CO in a full ring game. I think the raise is ok PF. Secondly, he has an open-ended straight draw. So 8 outs (Maybe one more for the 2 non-spade queens), but we gotta discount the 8 and K of spades and the chance that he already has a flush. This I would put down in the range of 5 outs. I think the flop call is marginal, but the turn call is just bad. Raising is better, but not much. I fold the turn and the river.